RE: [Ltru] Punjabi

"Don Osborn" <> Wed, 14 March 2007 08:31 UTC

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From: "Don Osborn" <>
To: "'Sarmad Hussain, Dr.'" <>, "'Mark Davis'" <>, "'LTRU Working Group'" <>, <>, <>
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Subject: RE: [Ltru] Punjabi
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 04:31:10 -0400
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Not sure if this will have gone out to the list  given that Sarmad is not on
LTRU (unless he just subscribed). So I'll pass it on with one thought. His
question about the intended use is one I also tend to ask - if you're
classifying text, that might imply one kind of categorization of the
language(s); but if you're compiling a locale for localizing software, then
maybe a different and broader (or "macro") conceptualization is appropriate.
In each case, at least for the languages I'm more familiar with, you might
reasonably come up with a different answer and use of language coding.






From: Sarmad Hussain, Dr. [] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:57 AM
To: Don Osborn; 'Mark Davis'; 'LTRU Working Group';;
Cc: Abbas Malik; Nayyara Karamat
Subject: RE: [Ltru] Punjabi


There are many more dialects of Punjabi, depending on the region within
Punjab in Pakistan.  What is spoken in Sargodha is much different from what
is spoken in Lahore, etc.  However, most agree that they are speaking
Punjabi.  There is some difference in vocabulary but real difference is in
the pronunciation.  If locale is to be sensitive to these dimensions of a
language, then multiple codes need to be put in.  However, if locale is just
identifying the language not the dialect (sub-language? as in some cases the
dialects may not be mutually understandable), then a singular locale would
do.  I am not sure what level locale is designed to serve?  Could anybody
else further elaborate on this?  I am cc:ing a couple of other people, in
case they want to comment.


We had looked at the written version of Punjabi in Pakistan (also called
Shahmukhi) for standardization purposes, and there seems to be less variety
at this level.  





From: Don Osborn [] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:55 AM
To: 'Mark Davis'; 'LTRU Working Group';;
Cc: Sarmad Hussain, Dr.
Subject: RE: [Ltru] Punjabi


Hi Mark. An addendum to your question would be what they write. Might there
be a pa-PK written standard? I don't know, just asking. 


I will take the liberty of cc'ing the question to Dr. Sarmad Hussein of the
National University of Computer and Emerging Sciences in Lahore, who also
heads the PAN L10n project in Asia ( ), in case he
has any thoughts. 





From: Mark Davis [] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:12 PM
To: LTRU Working Group;;
Subject: [Ltru] Punjabi


I have a question about Punjabi. ISO 639-2 gives "pan" as Punjabi. ISO 639-3
divides Punjabi into three separate codes:

pmu    Mirpur Panjabi
pnb    Western Panjabi
pan    Panjabi // called Eastern Panjabi in the Ethnologue. 

It looks from this that according to ISO 639-3, there is no macro language
for Panjabi; Pakistanis don't speak "pan" (= "pa"), even as a macro language
they speak something else. So a language pa-PK (or locale pa_PK) is probably
a mistake. Is this a fair statement? 


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