Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag

"Phillips, Addison" <addison@lab126.com> Sun, 24 July 2011 22:23 UTC

Return-Path: <addison@lab126.com>
X-Original-To: ltru@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ltru@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979E421F85F2 for <ltru@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:23:51 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -105.799
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.501, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XqiNLAzOxlCa for <ltru@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:23:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp-fw-4101.amazon.com (smtp-fw-4101.amazon.com [72.21.198.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0255621F8672 for <ltru@ietf.org>; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:23:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.67,258,1309737600"; d="scan'208";a="490310788"
Received: from smtp-in-1101.vdc.amazon.com ([10.146.54.37]) by smtp-border-fw-out-4101.iad4.amazon.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 24 Jul 2011 22:23:50 +0000
Received: from ex-hub-31010.ant.amazon.com (ex-hub-31010.sea31.amazon.com [10.185.169.7]) by smtp-in-1101.vdc.amazon.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p6OMNn0B002433 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:23:49 GMT
Received: from EX-SEA31-D.ant.amazon.com ([169.254.1.184]) by ex-hub-31010.ant.amazon.com ([::1]) with mapi; Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:23:48 -0700
From: "Phillips, Addison" <addison@lab126.com>
To: "doug@ewellic.org" <doug@ewellic.org>, "Broome, Karen" <Karen.Broome@am.sony.com>, Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:23:48 -0700
Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag
Thread-Index: AcxKSopH6bHsWtXRSb2e1I5gD8eYbwABKLgg
Message-ID: <131F80DEA635F044946897AFDA9AC3476A948795E9@EX-SEA31-D.ant.amazon.com>
References: <90856584-1311543530-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-289235175-@b17.c19.bise6.blackberry>
In-Reply-To: <90856584-1311543530-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-289235175-@b17.c19.bise6.blackberry>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" <ltru@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:23:51 -0000

Mark separately quoted the relevant paragraph from BCP 47. 

Generally I recommend against using the script subtag. I certainly have the problem Karen describes, but usually I find that the audio vs. written distinction is well-communicated by the context.

No language tag is "perfect" for all possible uses. As I tend to prefer succinct tags to verbose ones, I generally recommend against tagging audio content with 'Zxxx'. In chatting with Mark, though, I have seen that it can work well in applications that expect it.

Additional "language modalities" strike me as even less interesting to tag: "Japanese transcribed into sign language by a one-handed person from the original song as hummed in an Italian accent".

Addison

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Doug
> Ewell
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 2:39 PM
> To: Broome, Karen; Mark Davis ☕
> Cc: ltru@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag
> 
> 'Zxxx' originally did mean "code for unwritten languages," at least in ISO 15924,
> but there's no way anyone could interpret "en-Zxxx" or "ja-Zxxx" as meaning
> those languages are unwritten. Thus I'm not sure where the ambiguity lies.
> 
> If it really is necessary to use BCP 47 tags to indicate explicitly whether content
> is written or spoken, then 'Zxxx' is the tool for the job. But I still wonder how
> slippery this slope might turn out to be--spoken vs. sung, handwritten vs. typed
> vs. painted on a sign, etc.
> 
> --
> Doug Ewell • doug@ewellic.org
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> _______________________________________________
> Ltru mailing list
> Ltru@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru