Re: [Ltru] my technical position on extlang

Peter Constable 2008-05-25 08.20:
> > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> > John Cowan
>
>
> >> - In order to specify that I want "zh" or "cmn" but no other 
> >> languages, I have to use "zh-cjy;q=0, zh-cpx;q=0, zh-czh;q=0,
> >> zh-czo;q=0, zh- gan;q=0, zh-hak;q=0, zh-hsn;q=0, zh-mnp;q=0,
> >> zh-nan;q=0, zh-wuu;q=0, zh- yue;q=0 zh zh-cmn fr".
> >
> > Check.  And yet:
> >
> > If most users can handle most of the encompassed languages, then the
> > no-extlang model is painful (you have to specify too many positive-q
> > tags).  If most users can only handle a few encompassed languages, then
> > the extlang model is painful (you have to specify too many zero-q tags).
> > The situation is symmetrical.
>
> My hunch is that, for most macrolanguage cases, most users would not be able to handle most of the encompassed languages. If that's the case, then you're making an argument *against* extlang.
>   

And if your hunch is wrong, you are making an argument for Extlang. The 
question is: how do you count "most users"? 

My answer is that firstly, one should focus on the native Macrolanguage 
speakers. Secondly, one should focus on web pages made in the countries 
were these langauges are a dominant language. Their needs should count 
the most.

Fallback is an issue for the web, mostly. Or, perhaps we sould say, it 
is an issue for interactive media. Then the question is,

    * how many web pages are there that exist in "the dominant
      encompassed language" but not in "an undominant encompassed
      language"? (And I count in that which encompassed language is
      dominant, might vary in different countries.)

If it is a general resource aimed at users from China, then you will use 
the dominant language of China.  And may be fill in with pages in one or 
several of the other languages of China.

If it is a resource aimed spesificly at the users of "an undominant 
encompassed language", then,

    * firstly, it is very likely that the Macrolangauge tag would be
      used for that language anyhow. And thus, there would not be any
      possibility of escaping it, anyway.
    * secondly, should we really "go through hoops", in this spec, in
      order to secure that users of "the dominant encompassed language"
      can get the page in French or English instead? How often will
      there be a *real* need for that?

What we should NOT focus strongly on is the needs of Web sites that aims 
at demonstrating that the World is a multilingual place. Pages where all 
the x-thousand languages of the world are given equal space. Such pages 
are not real world examples in my view.

(I'm now very exited if the above can be commented without a reference 
to how close Nynorsk and Bokmål are.)
-- 
leif halvard silli
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru