Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage
Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no> Sun, 25 May 2008 11:38 UTC
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Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 13:38:12 +0200
From: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
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To: Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com>
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Cc: LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage
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Peter Constable 2008-05-25 02.51: > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Behalf Of Leif Halvard Silli > > > How different the encompassed languages > > are isn't necessarily relevant. The relevant thing is that they are > > conceived as one language in some important areas. Education of some > > sort is necessary to maintain intelligibility and command of more than > > one encompassed language. > > Please note very carefully: the definition of macrolanguage entails that the range of varieties is treated as a single language in some application context. Quoting 639-3: (http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#M) |...] considered distinct individual languages, yet in certain usage contexts a single language identity for all is needed [...] The wording "is needed" is one that I think Mark should take note of. > That does *not* entail that the encompassed varieties are mutually > intelligible, or that there is any one encompassed variety that is > intelligible to all the others. Certainly no claim is made in ISO 639 > that either is true. Whether or not either is true for any > macrolanguage is an empirical question. The strict definition might not entail this. But the empirical investigation that lead a group of languages to be placed in a Macrolanguage cathegory does most often entail it, it seems. The fragment I quoted above mentions 3 typical situations for when the Macrolanguage definition is suitable - listed here in my order of preference: 1. Transitional socio-linguistic situation; (The Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian/Montenegrin situation) 2. Dominant encompassed language situation; (Arabic) 3. A "common written form used for multiple closely-related languages" situation. (Chinese) (The 2nd and 3rd sitution seems to float together, in my view. Well, even for the 1st situation - e.g. think serbo-croat-bosnian- - the 3rd ("common written form") is very important there too. And, btw, when forced, I would place Norwegian in the first group.) In both situation 1 and 2, I would use your words and say that we have a situation where "the encompassed varieties are mutually intelligible, or that there is any one encompassed variety that is intelligible to all the others". In the third situation, Chinese, it seems partly to be the case - at least in China - that Mandarin is the lingua franca - thus we partly have a dominant language situation. The common written form is also very important, however, so that it perhaps serves as a "lingua franca" in itself. -- leif halvard silli _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
- [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage [OT?] Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Debbie Garside
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Phillips, Addison
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Shawn Steele
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Don Osborn
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] my technical position on extlang Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Randy Presuhn
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Nicolas Krebs
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Kent Karlsson
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli
- Re: [Ltru] Macrolanguage usage Leif Halvard Silli