Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes (Re: draft-davis-t-langtag-ext)
Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de> Wed, 13 July 2011 16:51 UTC
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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:51:38 +0200
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From: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>
To: Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes (Re: draft-davis-t-langtag-ext)
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2011/7/13 Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com> > > > Mark > *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* > > > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 00:37, Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>wrote: > >> Hello Martin, >> >> many thanks for your feedback. >> >> 2011/7/13 "Martin J. Dürst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> >> >>> Hello Felix, >>> >>> (I have removed ietf-languages@ietf.org, to avoid cross-postings.) >>> >>> >>> On 2011/07/12 16:23, Felix Sasaki wrote: >>> >>>> The current draft states >>>> >>>> "Language tags, as defined by >>>> [BCP47<http://tools.ietf.org/**html/draft-davis-t-langtag-** >>>> ext-02#ref-BCP47<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-davis-t-langtag-ext-02#ref-BCP47> >>>> >], >>>> >>>> are useful for identifying the >>>> >>>> language of content. There are mechanisms for specifying variant >>>> subtags for special purposes. However, these variants are >>>> insufficient for specifying text transformations, including content >>>> >>>> that has been transliterated, transcribed, or translated." >>>> >>>> I am requesting a clarification from the editors, that includes a >>>> liaison >>>> with the Unicode ULI TC http://uli.unicode.org/ , and a clarification >>>> in the >>>> draft. >>>> >>> >>> The IETF has liaisons, but not for a sentence or two in a single draft. >>> The IETF is open, so I suggest that you invite whoever is interested from >>> whoever organization to comment here. >> >> >> >> Of course I can point people from the ULI TC to comment on this draft. I >> was hoping that since this draft is being put forward mainly by a Unicode TC >> (CLDR), that Mark or others on this list who are members of that TC would >> engage with the ULI TC to assure coordination of efforts. But I am happy to >> do that on my own, and you are right that this is not a question of IETF >> liaisons. >> > > I would be glad to talk to them about this, and will. I don't anticipate > any problems; structure such as XLIFF is very different, with very different > goals, than the identification of content. > Indeed. FYI, I pinged Uwe Stahlschmidt in the meantime, but will leave this now to you. Felix > > >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Language tags so far have described *states*: an object is in a >>>> language, a >>>> script etc. The proposed extension extends languages to describe the >>>> outcome >>>> of a *process*: objects have been transformed, with a source object as >>>> the >>>> basis for this process. According to the paragraph above, this >>>> transformation includes also translation. >>>> >>> >>> I think you have a good point: The above description should be changed to >>> speak about the result of the transformation, not the process itself. >> >> > The very first paragraph indicates that it is results ("has been > transliterated, etc.") not process. Where there are other parts of the > document that you think need improvement, please let us know. > > for specifying the source language or script of transformed content, > including content that has been transliterated, transcribed, or > translated, or in some other way influenced by the source. It also > provides for additional information used for identification. > > > >>> >>> >>> So far formats like TBX, XLIFF or others have been used for aligning >>>> source >>>> and target contents. These formats also use language tags, via xml:lang. >>>> However, the transformation, i.e. the process information, is not >>>> expressed >>>> via the language tag, but via XML structures (pairs of source and target >>>> elements). >>>> >>> >>> That's probably the best for these kinds of formats and their >>> applications. >>> >>> >>> The language tags are purely for identifying the state of an >>>> object. >>>> >>> >>> Yes, and some wording changes can make this clear. >>> >> >> I agree. Mark or Addison, if you need more detailed / different text than >> the above, please let me know. >> >> Regards, >> >> Felix >> >> >>> >>> Regards, Martin. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ltru mailing list >> Ltru@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> >> >
- [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes… Felix Sasaki
- [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) processes… CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… CE Whitehead
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Felix Sasaki
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Felix Sasaki
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… Mark Davis ☕
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] Language tags and (localization) proce… CE Whitehead