Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag

"Broome, Karen" <Karen.Broome@am.sony.com> Sun, 24 July 2011 19:24 UTC

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From: "Broome, Karen" <Karen.Broome@am.sony.com>
To: =?utf-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJU=?= <mark@macchiato.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 12:13:45 -0700
Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag
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Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" <ltru@ietf.org>, Doug Ewell <doug@ewellic.org>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag
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Do you regularly have the “same” content in multiple audio and text versions and need to make that distinction? I guess why I wouldn’t recommend it to the motion picture community is that it’s a very text-centric way of looking at it. It may “work” but I’m guessing if I knew how you used the tag, I’d feel you were misrepresenting the tag’s semantics, which were always fuzzy and have changed over time.  Is your usage based on the tag’s original semantics or its meaning today? Its definition now seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me, but I don’t take issue if others find it useful. I just think the motion picture industry should likely avoid it as I suspect its use in the wild is fairly inconsistent.

Regards,

Karen Broome

From: mark.edward.davis@gmail.com [mailto:mark.edward.davis@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis ?
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 10:19 AM
To: Broome, Karen
Cc: Doug Ewell; ltru@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag

We are using Zxxx for spoken-only content, and haven't had any problems with that.

Mark
— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —

On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 10:01, Broome, Karen <Karen.Broome@am.sony.com<mailto:Karen.Broome@am.sony.com>> wrote:
Hmm. Need to give this some thought and read the draft a little more closely.

Long ago, I thought it might be appropriate for SMPTE or a similar body to register a singleton and use it to indicate subtitled/written or dubbed/spoken language, but seeing this addition I'm thinking it through again. I think the usage is likely more general than just the motion picture industry. "Zxxx" (code for unwritten documents) is not something I'll likely recommend any time soon for the motion picture industry. I've always opposed that for use to describe spoken language "tracks" though I know my use cases awhile back may have supported the creation of this tag. In most cases, it is true that the language mode can be inferred, but this is not always the case.

Regards,

Karen Broome

-----Original Message-----
From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org> [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org>] On Behalf Of Doug Ewell
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:52 AM
To: ltru@ietf.org<mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed -t0- subtag
"Broome, Karen" <Karen dot Broome at am dot sony dot com> wrote:

> Forgive me if I'm only able to skim these e-mails, but I'm wondering
> if there might be a parallel here with a use case like: English
> language film gets translated into Spoken Japanese (dubbed) for one
> market/format and Written Japanese (subtitles/captions/AD) for
> another.

Testing my understanding of the proposed extension, I think both would
be "ja-t-en".  The second could alternatively be "ja-Jpan-t-en", but
since 'Jpan' is the Suppress-Script for 'ja', it could normally be
omitted unless one felt it necessary to call attention to the writing
system.

Folks who insist that spoken content needs to be tagged as such, not
inferred from the context, would probably say the first tag should be
"jp-Zxxx-t-en".

The point is that the same Japanese content is converted along two
discrete paths; there is no indication that one is converted from the
other.  The source in each case is English ("-t-en").

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14
www.ewellic.org<http://www.ewellic.org> | www.facebook.com/doug.ewell<http://www.facebook.com/doug.ewell> | @DougEwell ­

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