RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)"
Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com> Sat, 08 December 2007 19:24 UTC
Return-path: <ltru-bounces@ietf.org>
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J15IB-0001dr-9m; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:24:51 -0500
Received: from ltru by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1J15I9-0001de-Hx for ltru-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:24:49 -0500
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J15I9-0001dV-55 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:24:49 -0500
Received: from mail1.microsoft.com ([131.107.115.212] helo=smtp.microsoft.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J15I2-0003Yf-0c for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:24:49 -0500
Received: from tk1-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.114) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.222.3; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:24:40 -0800
Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.44]) by tk1-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.114]) with mapi; Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:24:41 -0800
From: Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com>
To: Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org>, Doug Ewell <dewell@roadrunner.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:24:35 -0800
Subject: RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)"
Thread-Topic: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)"
Thread-Index: Acg5zsjN61Mna0LoT5WRIy8OqSwd+QAAM1Zw
Message-ID: <DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB83579561E514327E@NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
References: <003701c839c9$b3342d50$6601a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20712081115v7eb67a1ci52e43763e61be39f@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <30b660a20712081115v7eb67a1ci52e43763e61be39f@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: en-US
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------)
X-Scan-Signature: b63732b5b9d1e52a31ec7f4a85570241
Cc: LTRU Working Group <ltru@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list <ltru.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/ltru>
List-Post: <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru>, <mailto:ltru-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1127349365=="
Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org
It is coincidental that an Altaic language spoken in China and an unrelated isolate language spoken in China both happen to have “Ainu” as their English name. Peter From: Mark Davis [mailto:mark.davis@icu-project.org] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 11:16 AM To: Doug Ewell Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" I have less of a problem with these, because the parentheticals with geographical names would probably be fairly clear to most people. And because the the 639-2 variant is the most common, I think either of the following would work. ... Ainu Ainu (China) ... or ... Ainu (Japan) Ainu (China) ... Peter, since Ainu is not a macrolanguage, I assume that there is no relationship between aib and ain; that it is just an accident that they have the same English name? (Is the same true for the other name collisions where one of them was in 639-2 and yet they are not under a macrolanguage? Or are those slips through the cracks?) BTW, here is a list of all the names that are only distinguished by parentheticals in http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/iso-639-3_20071018.tab (don't worry about the UTF-8 munging -- I just forgot to tell Excel that it was UTF-8). At the end I list the unique parentheticals. aib I L Ainu Ainu (China) 2 ain I L Ainu Ainu (Japan) 2 aja I L Aja Aja (Sudan) 2 ajg I L Aja Aja (Benin) 2 amm I L Ama Ama (Papua New Guinea) 2 nyi I L Ama Ama (Sudan) 2 rwm I L Amba Amba (Uganda) 2 utp I L Amba Amba (Solomon Islands) 2 asa I L Asu Asu (Tanzania) 2 aum I L Asu Asu (Nigeria) 2 ayq I L Ayi Ayi (Papua New Guinea) 2 ayx I L Ayi Ayi (China) 2 bau I L Bada Bada (Nigeria) 2 bhz I L Bada Bada (Indonesia) 2 bdh I L Baka Baka (Sudan) 2 bkc I L Baka Baka (Cameroon) 2 bcn I L Bali Bali (Nigeria) 2 bcp I L Bali Bali (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 bas I L Basa Basa (Cameroon) 2 bzw I L Basa Basa (Nigeria) 2 btc I L Bati Bati (Cameroon) 2 bvt I L Bati Bati (Indonesia) 2 bey I L Beli Beli (Papua New Guinea) 2 blm I L Beli Beli (Sudan) 2 bem I L Bemba Bemba (Zambia) 2 bmy I L Bemba Bemba (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 bez I L Bena Bena (Tanzania) 2 yun I L Bena Bena (Nigeria) 2 btb I L Beti Beti (Cameroon) 2 eot I L Beti Beti (Côte d'Ivoire) 2 bmn I E Bina Bina (Papua New Guinea) 2 byj I L Bina Bina (Nigeria) 2 bgl I L Bo Bo (Laos) 2 bpw I L Bo Bo (Papua New Guinea) 2 bzl I L Boano Boano (Sulawesi) 2 bzn I L Boano Boano (Maluku) 2 boy I L Bodo Bodo (Central African Republic) 2 brx I L Bodo Bodo (India) 2 bkp I L Boko Boko (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 bqc I L Boko Boko (Benin) 2 bwu I L Buli Buli (Ghana) 2 bzq I L Buli Buli (Indonesia) 2 bjl I L Bulu Bulu (Papua New Guinea) 2 bum I L Bulu Bulu (Cameroon) 2 bqw I L Buru Buru (Nigeria) 2 mhs I L Buru Buru (Indonesia) 2 ddn I L Dendi Dendi (Benin) 2 deq I L Dendi Dendi (Central African Republic) 2 kbv I L Dera Dera (Indonesia) 2 kna I L Dera Dera (Nigeria) 2 dha I L Dhanwar Dhanwar (India) 2 dhw I L Dhanwar Dhanwar (Nepal) 2 dgo I L Dogri Dogri (individual language) 2 doi M L Dogri Dogri (macrolanguage) 2 env I L Enwan Enwan (Edu State) 2 enw I L Enwan Enwan (Akwa Ibom State) 2 etn I L Eton Eton (Vanuatu) 2 eto I L Eton Eton (Cameroon) 2 fak I L Fang Fang (Cameroon) 2 fan I L Fang Fang (Equatorial Guinea) 2 gba M L Gbaya Gbaya (Central African Republic) 2 krs I L Gbaya Gbaya (Sudan) 2 gim I L Gimi Gimi (Eastern Highlands) 2 gip I L Gimi Gimi (West New Britain) 2 gqn I E Guana Guana (Brazil) 2 gva I L Guana Guana (Paraguay) 2 glu I L Gula Gula (Chad) 2 kcm I L Gula Gula (Central African Republic) 2 isu I L Isu Isu (Menchum Division) 2 szv I L Isu Isu (Fako Division) 2 anq I L Jarawa Jarawa (India) 2 jar I L Jarawa Jarawa (Nigeria) 2 jim I L Jimi Jimi (Cameroon) 2 jmi I L Jimi Jimi (Nigeria) 2 kam I L Kamba Kamba (Kenya) 2 xba I E Kamba Kamba (Brazil) 2 kcu I L Kami Kami (Tanzania) 2 kmi I L Kami Kami (Nigeria) 2 kty I L Kango Kango (Bas-Uélé District) 2 kzy I L Kango Kango (Tshopo District) 2 kah I L Kara Kara (Central African Republic) 4 leu I L Kara Kara (Papua New Guinea) 4 reg I L Kara Kara (Tanzania) 4 zra I E Kara Kara (Korea) 4 kbn I L Kare Kare (Central African Republic) 2 kmf I L Kare Kare (Papua New Guinea) 2 arr I L Karo Karo (Brazil) 2 kxh I L Karo Karo (Ethiopia) 2 kcl I L Kela Kela (Papua New Guinea) 2 kel I L Kela Kela (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 khy I L Kele Kele (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 sbc I L Kele Kele (Papua New Guinea) 2 ktu I L Kituba Kituba (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 mkw I L Kituba Kituba (Congo) 2 biw I L Kol Kol (Cameroon) 2 kol I L Kol Kol (Papua New Guinea) 2 bkm I L Kom Kom (Cameroon) 2 kmm I L Kom Kom (India) 2 kmw I L Komo Komo (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 xom I L Komo Komo (Sudan) 2 knn I L Konkani Konkani (individual language) 2 kok M L Konkani Konkani (macrolanguage) 2 klk I L Kono Kono (Nigeria) 3 kno I L Kono Kono (Sierra Leone) 3 knu I L Kono Kono (Guinea) 3 kfo I L Koro Koro (Côte d'Ivoire) 3 krf I L Koro Koro (Vanuatu) 3 kxr I L Koro Koro (Papua New Guinea) 3 kfe I L Kota Kota (India) 2 koq I L Kota Kota (Gabon) 2 kvd I L Kui Kui (Indonesia) 2 kxu I L Kui Kui (India) 2 bbu I L Kulung Kulung (Nigeria) 2 kle I L Kulung Kulung (Nepal) 2 lha I L Laha Laha (Viet Nam) 2 lhh I L Laha Laha (Indonesia) 2 lak I L Laka Laka (Nigeria) 2 lap I L Laka Laka (Chad) 2 las I L Lama Lama (Togo) 2 lay I L Lama Lama (Myanmar) 2 laj I L Lango Lango (Uganda) 2 lno I L Lango Lango (Sudan) 2 lel I L Lele Lele (Democratic Republic of Congo) 4 llc I L Lele Lele (Guinea) 4 lle I L Lele Lele (Papua New Guinea) 4 lln I L Lele Lele (Chad) 4 leo I L Leti Leti (Cameroon) 2 lti I L Leti Leti (Indonesia) 2 loi I L Loma Loma (Côte d'Ivoire) 2 lom I L Loma Loma (Liberia) 2 mjn I L Ma Ma (Papua New Guinea) 2 msj I L Ma Ma (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 mde I L Maba Maba (Chad) 2 mqa I L Maba Maba (Indonesia) 2 mda I L Mada Mada (Nigeria) 2 mxu I L Mada Mada (Cameroon) 2 mti I L Maiwa Maiwa (Papua New Guinea) 2 wmm I L Maiwa Maiwa (Indonesia) 2 mkg I L Mak Mak (China) 2 pbl I L Mak Mak (Nigeria) 2 ped I L Mala Mala (Papua New Guinea) 2 ruy I L Mala Mala (Nigeria) 2 mly I L Malay Malay (individual language) 2 msa ms M L Malay Malay (macrolanguage) 2 mdc I L Male Male (Papua New Guinea) 2 mdy I L Male Male (Ethiopia) 2 mgs I L Manda Manda (Tanzania) 3 mha I L Manda Manda (India) 3 zma I L Manda Manda (Australia) 3 chm M L Mari Mari (Russia) 3 hob I L Mari Mari (Madang Province) 3 mbx I L Mari Mari (East Sepik Province) 3 mds I L Maria Maria (Papua New Guinea) 2 mrr I L Maria Maria (India) 2 mve I L Marwari Marwari (Pakistan) 2 rwr I L Marwari Marwari (India) 2 jms I L Mashi Mashi (Nigeria) 2 mho I L Mashi Mashi (Zambia) 2 mcw I L Mawa Mawa (Chad) 2 wma I E Mawa Mawa (Nigeria) 2 mpk I L Mbara Mbara (Chad) 2 mvl I E Mbara Mbara (Australia) 2 mbo I L Mbo Mbo (Cameroon) 2 zmw I L Mbo Mbo (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 men I L Mende Mende (Sierra Leone) 2 sim I L Mende Mende (Papua New Guinea) 2 hna I L Mina Mina (Cameroon) 2 myi I L Mina Mina (India) 2 mow I L Moi Moi (Congo) 2 mxn I L Moi Moi (Indonesia) 2 mnh I L Mono Mono (Democratic Republic of Congo) 4 mnr I L Mono Mono (USA) 4 mru I L Mono Mono (Cameroon) 4 mte I L Mono Mono (Solomon Islands) 4 mhz I L Mor Mor (Mor Islands) 2 moq I L Mor Mor (Bomberai Peninsula) 2 mjh I L Mwera Mwera (Nyasa) 2 mwe I L Mwera Mwera (Chimwera) 2 naq I L Nama Nama (Namibia) 2 nmx I L Nama Nama (Papua New Guinea) 2 ngd I L Ngando Ngando (Central African Republic) 2 nxd I L Ngando Ngando (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 ngc I L Ngombe Ngombe (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 nmj I L Ngombe Ngombe (Central African Republic) 2 nnv I E Nugunu Nugunu (Australia) 2 yas I L Nugunu Nugunu (Cameroon) 2 nun I L Nung Nung (Myanmar) 2 nut I L Nung Nung (Viet Nam) 2 oke I L Okpe Okpe (Southwestern Edo) 2 okx I L Okpe Okpe (Northwestern Edo) 2 pnq I L Pana Pana (Burkina Faso) 2 pnz I L Pana Pana (Central African Republic) 2 ria I L Riang Riang (India) 2 ril I L Riang Riang (Myanmar) 2 sng I L Sanga Sanga (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 xsn I L Sanga Sanga (Nigeria) 2 sbp I L Sangu Sangu (Tanzania) 2 snq I L Sangu Sangu (Gabon) 2 ske I L Seke Seke (Vanuatu) 2 skj I L Seke Seke (Nepal) 2 spb I L Sepa Sepa (Indonesia) 2 spe I L Sepa Sepa (Papua New Guinea) 2 soc I L So So (Democratic Republic of Congo) 2 sox I L So So (Cameroon) 2 swa sw M L Swahili Swahili (macrolanguage) 2 swh I L Swahili Swahili (individual language) 2 ten I E Tama Tama (Colombia) 2 tma I L Tama Tama (Chad) 2 tcl I L Taman Taman (Myanmar) 2 tmn I L Taman Taman (Indonesia) 2 tbt I L Tembo Tembo (Kitembo) 2 tmv I L Tembo Tembo (Motembo) 2 tew I L Tewa Tewa (USA) 2 twe I L Tewa Tewa (Indonesia) 2 tnz I L Tonga Tonga (Thailand) 4 tog I L Tonga Tonga (Nyasa) 4 toi I L Tonga Tonga (Zambia) 4 ton to I L Tonga Tonga (Tonga Islands) 4 don I L Toura Toura (Papua New Guinea) 2 neb I L Toura Toura (Côte d'Ivoire) 2 uro I L Ura Ura (Papua New Guinea) 2 uur I L Ura Ura (Vanuatu) 2 wll I L Wali Wali (Sudan) 2 wlx I L Wali Wali (Ghana) 2 war I L Waray Waray (Philippines) 2 wrz I L Waray Waray (Australia) 2 wmo I L Wom Wom (Papua New Guinea) 2 wom I L Wom Wom (Nigeria) 2 axk I L Yaka Yaka (Central African Republic) 3 iyx I L Yaka Yaka (Congo) 3 yaf I L Yaka Yaka (Democratic Republic of Congo) 3 yuw I L Yau Yau (Morobe Province) 2 yyu I L Yau Yau (Sandaun Province) 2 Here are the unique parentheticals: (Akwa Ibom State) (Australia) (Bas-Uélé District) (Benin) (Bomberai Peninsula) (Brazil) (Burkina Faso) (Côte d'Ivoire) (Cameroon) (Central African Republic) (Chad) (Chimwera) (China) (Colombia) (Congo) (Democratic Republic of Congo) (East Sepik Province) (Eastern Highlands) (Edu State) (Equatorial Guinea) (Ethiopia) (Fako Division) (Gabon) (Ghana) (Guinea) (India) (individual language) (Indonesia) (Japan) (Kenya) (Kitembo) (Korea) (Laos) (Liberia) (macrolanguage) (Madang Province) (Maluku) (Menchum Division) (Mor Islands) (Morobe Province) (Motembo) (Myanmar) (Namibia) (Nepal) (Nigeria) (Northwestern Edo) (Nyasa) (Pakistan) (Papua New Guinea) (Paraguay) (Philippines) (Russia) (Sandaun Province) (Sierra Leone) (Solomon Islands) (Southwestern Edo) (Sudan) (Sulawesi) (Tanzania) (Thailand) (Togo) (Tonga Islands) (Tshopo District) (Uganda) (USA) (Vanuatu) (Viet Nam) (West New Britain) (Zambia) I don't see much of a problem with any of them except for the (macro/individual language) ones. Mark On Dec 8, 2007 10:39 AM, Doug Ewell < dewell@roadrunner.com<mailto:dewell@roadrunner.com>> wrote: Incidentally, this same question applies to cases like the following: Type: language Subtag: ain Description: Ainu (Japan) Description: Ainu Added: 2005-10-16 where: "Ainu" is the name used in ISO 639-2 "Ainu (Japan)" is the name used in ISO 639-3, because there is also an "Ainu (China)" that wasn't coded in 639-2 Does it make sense to include both descriptions? Doing so might confuse people looking for the Chinese Ainu, who find "Ainu = ain" (in a user interface, not looking directly at the LSR) and don't realize there is also a Japanese Ainu and they've hit it by mistake. Excluding "Ainu (Japan)" would guarantee that this would happen. But excluding plain "Ainu" would once again be unacceptable to people who want all ISO 639-1 and -2 names (except inversions, now) retained in the LSR. Which is the least problematic course of action? -- Doug Ewell * Fullerton, California, USA * RFC 4645 * UTN #14 http://home.roadrunner.com/~dewell<http://home.roadrunner.com/%7Edewell> http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages ˆ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org<mailto:Ltru@ietf.org> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru -- Mark
_______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
- [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" John Cowan
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Mark Davis
- [Ltru] Re: "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Frank Ellermann
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Mark Davis
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Mark Davis
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] Re: "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Re: "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell
- [Ltru] Obsolete descriptions (was: "X" vs. 'X (ma… Frank Ellermann
- [Ltru] Re: "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Frank Ellermann
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Peter Constable
- RE: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Kent Karlsson
- RE: [Ltru] Obsolete descriptions (was: "X" vs. 'X… Peter Constable
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Mark Davis
- Re: [Ltru] "X" vs. 'X (macrolanguage)" Doug Ewell