[Lucid] Communication.

Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com> Thu, 19 March 2015 22:37 UTC

Return-Path: <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: lucid@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: lucid@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079821A90E9 for <lucid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:37:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.902
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LNNO9WU3Zgns for <lucid@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0113.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.113]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69F011A88F7 for <lucid@ietf.org>; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.163.81.12) by BLUPR03MB549.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.141.76.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.112.19; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:37:32 +0000
Received: from BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.163.81.12) by BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (25.163.81.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.112.19; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:37:31 +0000
Received: from BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.81.12]) by BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([25.163.81.12]) with mapi id 15.01.0112.000; Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:37:31 +0000
From: Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
To: "lucid@ietf.org" <lucid@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Communication.
Thread-Index: AdBilGgqZ6ymGH/2S3K+k5B0kyebMQ==
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:37:31 +0000
Message-ID: <BLUPR03MB1378075831687B9D8DCE68A382010@BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [2001:4898:80e8:ee31::2]
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com;
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378; UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR03MB549;
x-forefront-antispam-report: BMV:1; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(6009001)(86362001)(2351001)(106356001)(2656002)(87936001)(107886001)(86612001)(229853001)(19580395003)(110136001)(97736003)(46102003)(99286002)(2501003)(92566002)(62966003)(68736005)(2900100001)(77156002)(450100001)(15975445007)(102836002)(122556002)(40100003)(33656002)(54356999)(76576001)(74316001)(50986999)(3826002)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378; H:BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BLUPR03MB1378AFE24599C72F94EA0C4E82010@BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5002010)(5005006); SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378;
x-forefront-prvs: 052017CAF1
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Mar 2015 22:37:31.0176 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR03MB1378
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.onmicrosoft.com
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lucid/QctWvZGACVxSlrYdDbvBO04Q-lY>
Subject: [Lucid] Communication.
X-BeenThere: lucid@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Locale-free UniCode Identifiers \(LUCID\)" <lucid.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/lucid>, <mailto:lucid-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/lucid/>
List-Post: <mailto:lucid@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:lucid-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lucid>, <mailto:lucid-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 22:37:35 -0000

I feel like I'm speaking a different language, or at least not worrying about the same problems.

Andrew keeps asking, I've read https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sullivan-lucid-prob-stmt/?include_text=1 several times now...

It looks like the PRECIS effort and Unicode aren't speaking the same language.  Which is unfortunate, since PRECIS is attempting to suggest ways to use Unicode.  

I think Asmus said that well " Character encoding is not the process of numbering entities by shape. It's the process of numbering entities by their underlying identity in writing."  

The PRECIS effort's language is all about characters are encoded by shape.  Unicodes language defined them as being encoded by their underlying identity.

-Shawn

PS: I love the sentence that starts off RFC 6885: "If a protocol expects to compare two strings and is prepared only for those strings to be ASCII, then using Unicode code points in those strings requires they be prepared somehow."  That makes me want to go hide in a cave or something.