From: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>
Message-Id: <247FD52A-D90D-498E-AD79-9DADA8653EB2@eggert.org>
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Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 17:08:58 +0200
In-Reply-To: <4528ED27-E3B6-43C4-99A5-715DE1B79A09@cisco.com>
Cc: =?utf-8?B?0JLQsNGB0LjQu9C40Lkg0JTQvtC70LzQsNGC0L7Qsg==?=
 <vdolmatov@gmail.com>, "t2trg@irtf.org" <t2trg@irtf.org>,
 Dave Oran <daveoran@orandom.net>, "lwip@ietf.org" <lwip@ietf.org>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
References: <6CB4D459-4AAA-4313-B95C-05DF22C9A9DD@eggert.org>
 <E7C38177-DD0B-4D92-AE0E-EB457691E493@cisco.com>
 <6B9FFEF5-CDC9-4703-BB10-616DBEDE80AB@gmail.com>
 <4528ED27-E3B6-43C4-99A5-715DE1B79A09@cisco.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lwip/HtpLxE2OPCXKv9_FPHHFoBJ25Wk>
Subject: Re: [Lwip] [T2TRG] QUIC on IoT boards
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Hi,

On 2020-1-20, at 16:52, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
> 	=E2=80=A2 I only want that device speaking protocols it was =
designed to speak.
>=20
> It=E2=80=99s that last one that has me worried from a long term =
perspective with QUIC.

I don't quite follow. Surely if someone ships an IoT device that uses =
QWUIC for communication, that *is* a device "designed to speak" QUIC?

>  If the stack hides means to determine directionality, as it does, and =
applications, as it does, we should take a pause to determine how we =
would detect whether it has services running on it that aren=E2=80=99t =
intended, as has happened all too often.[1]. These are use cases that =
QUIC was not designed to address.

So [1] is a case where the firmware web server had an embarrassing bug - =
it's not an example where someone hacked in and ran another service in =
addition to (or instead of) the manufacturer one. So that's not a =
fitting example for the point you are trying to raise.

We can certainly debate whether more encryption and/or obfuscation makes =
network-based threat detection harder or not. It might even be the case =
that there are wrinkles in the IoT space that aren't there in the =
broader web space, in terms of appropriateness or trade-offs. But in =
general, I think this issue is a general one, and not IoT-specific.

> On the other hand, we do want the IoT community to leverage the best =
that the Web community has delivered, if and when it is appropriate, and =
even when the whole package is not, it is best that they adopt the =
components that are, so that they don=E2=80=99t end up having to repeat =
old mistakes.

Exactly. Given the ever increasing amount of engineering cycles that are =
being poured into QUIC, the IoT community should absolutely try to =
leverage that to the max, where it can.

Thanks,
Lars

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