Re: [Madinas] BoF preparation call - Minutes
Juan Carlos Zuniga <juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com> Fri, 16 April 2021 18:07 UTC
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From: Juan Carlos Zuniga <juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com>
To: "madinas@ietf.org" <madinas@ietf.org>
CC: CARLOS JESUS BERNARDOS CANO <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "Lee, Yiu" <Yiu_Lee@comcast.com>, "j.c.zuniga@ieee.org" <j.c.zuniga@ieee.org>
Thread-Topic: BoF preparation call - Minutes
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 18:07:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Madinas] BoF preparation call - Minutes
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Dear all, Thanks for attending the call. Below are the minutes. Feel free to let us know if there is any required clarification or missing info. Best, Juan Carlos, Carlos & Yiu MADINAS BoF Prep-call Friday, 16 April, 14:00-15:00 UTC, Webex Chairs: Juan Carlos Zuniga (SIGFOX) Carlos Bernardos (UC3M) Note Taker: Yiu Lee (Comcast) AGENDA 1. Intro & Agenda Bashing - Chairs 5 minutes 2. Problem Statement 15 minutes draft-henry-madinas-framework-01 - Jerome Henry (Cisco) 3. WBA 20 minutes WiFi Devices Identification Group and Paper - Bruno Tomas (WBA), Tim Twell (BT) 4. Proposed Charter & Next Steps 20 minutes Chairs w/ADs support MINUTES - Participants (28) 1. Intro & Agenda Bashing - Chairs JC gave a quick intro and the agenda. 2. Problem Statement Jerome explained the draft updates. Jerome mentioned that we updated Table 1 and removed the "Privacy" column because the authors agreed that privacy is important across the board. Eric Vycke suggested to replace "framework" to "Problem Statement" Tim Cappalli has question for PS6. We replace "Define" to "Identify". 3. WBA Bruno Tomas shared the current work happening in WBA WBA sees device identity is an important issue. They have a project called "OpenRoaming". OpenRoaming is a framework to extend Passpoint to make roaming more user friendly Tim Twell is leading the effort in BT for device identity. Tim Twell gave an overview of the WBA Liaison paper. He acknowledged that using mac-address as device identity created some challenges moving forward. The White Paper will provide inputs to the standard bodies. WBA plans to work on requirements and recommendations pointing to other SDOs - new protocol developments is last resort. Currently, Tim believes that there isn't an one-size-fit-all solution for all environments. WBA released a Liaison Paper that is being shared with IETF MADINAS (newer version to be distributed on the list). Section 1 discuss problems caused by mac randomization. Section 2 looks at different network types and how they use device identity. Section 3 looks at device distribution of using mac-address randomization. At the network data plane layer, currently mac-address is being used for many functions such as telemetry, QoS and Lawful Intercept. CHAT rom Eric Vyncke (Cisco) to everyone: 10:07 AM Sorry for joining late, I had a link to a google meeting ;-) from Jerome Henry (Cisco) (Cisco) to everyone: 10:08 AM :0 to Behcet (Guest) (privately): 10:10 AM Hi Behcet, would you mind muting your mic? from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:14 AM User's personal privacy still matters on managed devices. Its just what level is there legal protection or corporation policies that allow the organization to ignore the user's concerns. from Eric Vyncke (Cisco) to everyone: 10:14 AM agreed, some countries are pretty clear on this from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:17 AM This is more of a use case doc, no? from Eric Vyncke (Cisco) to everyone: 10:17 AM True from Eric Vyncke (Cisco) to everyone: 10:19 AM 3.6 is indeed more about requirements from Erik Kline (Guest) to everyone: 10:19 AM PS5: s/define/identify/? from Eric Vyncke (Cisco) to everyone: 10:21 AM Good idea from Erik Kline (Guest) to everyone: 10:27 AM What's the relationship between Open Roaming and Passpoint? (sorry for the naive question) from Erik Kline (Guest) to everyone: 10:28 AM ack; thx from Behcet (Guest) to everyone: 10:29 AM Passpoint is authentication protocol developed by WiFi Alliance. It basically does authentication based on email address not MAC address from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:30 AM Passpoint is NOT an authentication protocol from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:30 AM It is a discovery protocl from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:30 AM Nor is email address used from Behcet (Guest) to everyone: 10:32 AM This is from WFA: Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Passpoint(r) is an industry-wide solution that streamlines Wi-Fi access and eliminates the need for users to find and authenticate a network each time they visit from [V] Mark Hamilton Ruckus/CommScope (Guest) to everyone: 10:32 AM It's both. It defines discovery mechansisms, and also specifies EAP authentication to be used for access. I optionally also adds methods to provision EAP identities into the client devices. from Bruno Tomas WBA (Guest) to everyone: 10:32 AM Indeed, Passpoint combines 802.11u, 802.11i and 802.1x (allow both EAP-SIM, AKA, TTLS, TLS) authentication. OpenRoaming leverages Passpoint to massively scale user onboarding and Identity Providers. It then adds the end to end perspective, with RadSec/IPSEC, AAA, Dynamic Discovery (optional) of Roaming end points from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:32 AM It references EAP methods, does not define them from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:33 AM and client provisioning != authentication from Behcet (Guest) to everyone: 10:33 AM Merci Bruno from Carsten Bormann (Guest) to everyone: 10:34 AM This is somewhat hard to follow while it uses identifiers and identities as if they were synonyms from [V] Mark Hamilton Ruckus/CommScope (Guest) to everyone: 10:36 AM We should note that EAP level of authentication is not appropriate for all networks. Where the user and network want/need a mutual trust relationship, Passpoint and OpenRoaming can be leveraged. But, where the network is "visited" and less (or not) trusted, privacy is still a concern. from Eric Vyncke (Cisco) to everyone: 10:37 AM is 'networ types' on slide 4 what the IETF names "use cases" ? from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:37 AM It is not all about trust. It is also about UX from Tim Cappalli - Microsoft (Guest) to everyone: 10:38 AM So while Passpoint may seem like overkiill from a protocol standpoint, its UX is unmatched. [LAST LINES MISSING]
- Re: [Madinas] BoF preparation call - Minutes Juan Carlos Zuniga
- Re: [Madinas] [EXTERNAL] RE: BoF preparation call… Lee, Yiu