Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up?
"Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" <sratliff@cisco.com> Fri, 07 March 2014 16:39 UTC
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From: "Stan Ratliff (sratliff)" <sratliff@cisco.com>
To: Teco Boot <teco@inf-net.nl>
Thread-Topic: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up?
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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 16:39:31 +0000
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References: <38A5475DE83986499AEACD2CFAFC3F98FA6C34C0@tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com> <480A632F-CB9E-4A62-ACDA-521C1A899049@inf-net.nl> <CAGnRvuqL8z+P5BJP-duyQo2BnTSpnkv7nDnOEdAQ1RfdXu7r+Q@mail.gmail.com> <38A5475DE83986499AEACD2CFAFC3F98FA6C4B60@tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com> <38A5475DE83986499AEACD2CFAFC3F98FA6C56BA@tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com> <CAGnRvuotok8UC-=i9RU8RvAv_wcv1DE3ubRLqibWeDLF6KRuDA@mail.gmail.com> <FB821471-E223-41BE-8D38-24C54B2B92C5@cisco.com> <CAGnRvupAoaLtvsHh6TLXvxsBnmrLMtPCZ-VKuxR=gVPxnchWDQ@mail.gmail.com> <67373A27-5AB2-47D3-B543-C0EB72D0AD7C@cisco.com> <CAGnRvuqHknFWoLyv5RjM3OcJ+g4WsRTphMH8d9wLQV+m+J+6uw@mail.gmail.com> <DBAE1DE6-0929-40B3-A044-AF3560829F16@cisco.com> <DB8478A3-BC4C-4B87-8CAB-BC219FA4B7DD@inf-net.nl>
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Cc: "DLEP Research Group, (manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org)" <manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org>, Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com>, Rick Taylor <rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up?
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On Mar 6, 2014, at 4:38 AM, Teco Boot <teco@inf-net.nl> wrote: > So we should throw away our PS radio’s? No. The PS radios use 802.11 *spectrum* (2.4GHz), but do NOT use 802.11 layer 2. They wrote their own. I think they borrowed the frame formats, but nothing more. So comparing Persistent Systems to a WiFi radio is apples-to-oranges. Regards, Stan > Teco > > Op 5 mrt. 2014, om 22:11 heeft Stan Ratliff (sratliff) <sratliff@cisco.com> het volgende geschreven: > >> OK, this is IMO, but… >> >> That is pretty much a one-off, for a research or lab-type effort. As a professor of mine in college used to say, "No one in their right mind will ever use 802.11 adhoc for anything more than a development/research platform". I just don't see bending the protocol to put this in for no more use than we'll get out of it. >> >> After all, nothing stops you from inserting an extra TLV into your own implementation. >> >> Regards, >> Stan >> >> On Mar 5, 2014, at 4:02 PM, Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> One option to allow DLEP with adhoc wifi might be to configure the >>> local MAC address of the routers interface towards the DLEP radio with >>> the same mac address as the local radio. >>> >>> This way you can send them over the wifi link without having to do a >>> nasty MAC-NAT style thing. >>> >>> It would be a help to be able to reconfigure the MAC on the router >>> BEFORE I have to open the TCP session. >>> >>> It might work reconfiguring it afterwards (will trigger new ARP/ICMPv6 >>> requests I think). >>> >>> Henning >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) >>> <sratliff@cisco.com> wrote: >>>> What would that MAC address be used for? I don't understand. >>>> >>>> Stan >>>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder if we could allow a MAC address data TLV in the multicast >>>>> discovery peer offer. >>>>> >>>>> It would solve a lot of headaches with DLEP Wifi radios in Adhoc mode. >>>>> >>>>> Henning >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Stan Ratliff (sratliff) >>>>> <sratliff@cisco.com> wrote: >>>>>> Henning, >>>>>> >>>>>> That's true. The data items would be in the "Peer Offer" response to the >>>>>> Multicasted Discovery. Those data items (IP address and Port) will have to >>>>>> move to the discovery message. Also, any a-priori configuration will need to >>>>>> be implemented in the router instead of the modem, but that's really an >>>>>> "implementation detail". >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Stan >>>>>> On Mar 5, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Henning Rogge <hrogge@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I just looked it up, we have no data items in the UDP discovery broadcast at >>>>>> all at the moment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Henning >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 5, 2014 5:36 PM, "Rick Taylor" <rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Guys, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you all very much for a very productive meeting this afternoon. I >>>>>>> include a write up of my notes, please correct me if I have missed anything >>>>>>> pertinent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Stan has committed to updating the session initiation description to place >>>>>>> the TCP server in the modem, so the initial part of the protocol is: Modem >>>>>>> broadcasts UDP Hello packets containing version, ident and TCP address/port. >>>>>>> Router TCP connects, session initiation occurs via the new TCP connection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Credit windowing will stay in the document, but will be clearly marked as >>>>>>> an optional part of the protocol. There was some concern raised over the >>>>>>> clarity of the current text which will need to be address before last call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vendor extensions will be defined using a new Data Item, containing a OUI >>>>>>> (or something from an existing registry) and space for a payload. There >>>>>>> will need to be some guidance verbiage to characterise what is a valid >>>>>>> vendor extension and what is not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There was clarification of what both ends of a DLEP session must do on >>>>>>> reciept of an unrecognized signal and data item. For a data item, the >>>>>>> receiver MUST ignore the data item, for a signal the recipient MUST send an >>>>>>> error status signal and terminate the TCP connection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There will be no facility in DLEP v1 for vendor extended signals. Any >>>>>>> extra signals will require an uplift of the verion of the protocol and >>>>>>> require a new draft. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There will be no such thing as a Peer Characteristic Request. This will >>>>>>> prevent abuse and misuse of the DLEP protocol to act as a configuration >>>>>>> mechanism. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There was further discussion concerning multiple QoS flows with seperate >>>>>>> metrics across a single link. This was agreed to be pushed out to another >>>>>>> draft after DLEP v1, after some analysis that the proposed approach >>>>>>> (heirachial data items) will not break existing DLEP v1 implementations. >>>>>>> Stan agreed to double check that the text specified 16bit length values for >>>>>>> all TLVs (data and signals). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There was discussion about enumerating error codes, and potential error >>>>>>> text. The status signal MUST include an error code, 0 being success, others >>>>>>> to be enumerated after close analysis of the protocol, plus and optional >>>>>>> free text field to carry loggable information, capped at 80 bytes, utf8 >>>>>>> encoded. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There was discussion of confidence values for metrics, and this was >>>>>>> rejected as a core DLEP mechanism, and the suggestion was to use an >>>>>>> extension data item TLV instead. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In light of achieveing their goal of listing the outstanding points that >>>>>>> needed to be reolved before DLEP can make progress to WG last-call, and >>>>>>> actually achieving suitable consensus to resolve the outstanding issues to >>>>>>> the satisafaction of one of the authors present, the DT decided to not apply >>>>>>> for a continuation of their charter, and to instead announce "Mission >>>>>>> Complete" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rick Taylor >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> manet-dlep-rg mailing list >>>>>>> manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet-dlep-rg >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> manet-dlep-rg mailing list >>>>>> manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet-dlep-rg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> manet-dlep-rg mailing list >> manet-dlep-rg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet-dlep-rg >
- [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Joseph Macker
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Rick Taylor
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Joe Macker
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Joe Macker
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario John Dowdell
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Joe Macker
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Henning Rogge
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] 802.11 Adhoc scenario Taylor, Rick
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Teco Boot
- Re: [manet-dlep-rg] London meet up? Stan Ratliff (sratliff)