Re: [manet] Adoption of draft-berger-manet-dlep-ether-credit-extension as a WG document

Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Wed, 21 July 2021 14:40 UTC

Return-Path: <lberger@labn.net>
X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39023A1A51 for <manet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 07:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=labn.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ODbOq46LPB3 for <manet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 07:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM10-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10on2113.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.94.113]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7436C3A1A4E for <manet@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 07:40:09 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ocb+iyf+m/LfXbd3BjdPjNA6+n6zk+ltCEu8LaeHQrnY1B58AMwt9JlIi/K+Eg46Xe0Eh6h6d1mLfE9UotXlP7aSGVcKytjhhXCTFeRUsZLDK86L9EVk/85DrsC+weXd6lmqnmu1rcv89voocbJar3hvNXo0WYJGnNbrLF4H1klNvDRHDZJMIlYtscYiLyB/fU0AHiNpXP7rsCkj3wsyPQDfdTXdFtwdKO5LlTE1VV9mAMg79r/HyXTTgk/6PTmpr1W6ryOnOFCnE8JTIFt0EzSQwHVtggDVrdRAZ4VNqkfmMt3xkiI+HAjmk6Xb9OuiqgDtyygdM594b/jUraoDPQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ygVfOJVQTzT39/KEpQvpITNpffRxnmujZaq2lm25tKI=; b=jOSpvvPhvA8wwK4rwFezhUvWkKdead/XvMjQWyM8mq+U0I09S+goWakkQ9gLFyiyJAKyBdBd4fxj7zDvUY/lQDIUoYtrrrEZaNvA0+0rF9E7VRgn5f4mWRdL+YYs4b1KfAxw6nezdGhf8PBHq8NhGHvkHXS1DEb/2fAvjBd71G818Ku0W09cQDHS4BkCleMdupXaqHaW6SNj2cFQnqZTBGA9WN4HsAov/bBGo/AD/vMxJE/EPEitVz2RqG+nTiBkjp9o3jIP09rt1Dp9IjcDPICGXJ3ZglZSIDVMY95Tocs2MImdSJS3aw7H/IrB074M7q18OxLCF5nEPCD1HQ0Dcg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=labn.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=labn.net; dkim=pass header.d=labn.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-labn-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ygVfOJVQTzT39/KEpQvpITNpffRxnmujZaq2lm25tKI=; b=hvukbmuSeTIWcRaNrYwJipGpWIGGspYODe6pPy40WAwGSs7eAjYaNIBZsW7naxDkEuGTPI1bsqzgIdpBGjZtkkB/mEI4lCZ6WQD5kYLWy2kXrfjIAbibH/FsLKw9IBt+3bM/RsfCfRC7+uT/In3UbQz83qUQAaVpY3s7Nl8S4MM=
Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=labn.net;
Received: from SJ0PR14MB4792.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:379::24) by BYAPR14MB2536.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:d8::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4331.21; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:40:07 +0000
Received: from SJ0PR14MB4792.namprd14.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4c2e:22d:4fe5:6792]) by SJ0PR14MB4792.namprd14.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4c2e:22d:4fe5:6792%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4331.034; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:40:06 +0000
To: "Rogge, Henning" <henning.rogge@fkie.fraunhofer.de>, "manet@ietf.org" <manet@ietf.org>
References: <11e377ba54944514b1ac219df9abf022@tno.nl> <1626849672905.12799@fkie.fraunhofer.de> <83a66365-9be9-61e6-9c36-3ee0d0333a78@labn.net> <1626874478389.40212@fkie.fraunhofer.de>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
Message-ID: <0e56acf4-af01-ac2d-1310-476eaf63c846@labn.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:40:04 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0
In-Reply-To: <1626874478389.40212@fkie.fraunhofer.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
X-ClientProxiedBy: MN2PR05CA0025.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:c0::38) To SJ0PR14MB4792.namprd14.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:379::24)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (100.15.108.238) by MN2PR05CA0025.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:c0::38) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4352.10 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:40:06 +0000
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: ba22cc22-19c9-411c-17d3-08d94c556ef6
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: BYAPR14MB2536:
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <BYAPR14MB253668500EC14122805F9F91C3E39@BYAPR14MB2536.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:8882;
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR14MB4792.namprd14.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(136003)(39830400003)(366004)(396003)(376002)(346002)(478600001)(66574015)(53546011)(2616005)(7126003)(26005)(966005)(66476007)(66556008)(66946007)(45640500001)(5660300002)(186003)(52116002)(316002)(8936002)(16576012)(7246003)(31696002)(2906002)(110136005)(6486002)(36756003)(86362001)(8676002)(38350700002)(956004)(38100700002)(31686004)(45980500001)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?RGM5L3p3a1U4RGhHd1huOUVLOU9Ccnl3OGVtRWNIU0xMUHR6UVZOeEMrOXJJ?= =?utf-8?B?alZXT3l4THNBUW10WVo4eGpZSCs1SEFOQzZZb0xRQ2JBb1M4ayt1bWdRZytx?= =?utf-8?B?d25OY05ZQmM0eWVrODY1Qk5xUDYyUjAvRXpOWVA0eWdJTENTemZnTVZUaGdk?= =?utf-8?B?MUVlQ3V0STB2T000UWQwbnpsVmNNczlCQmdiczVlTGlGRi9QVGpaUkpBUksz?= =?utf-8?B?am5yeFh6eHFIVnA0VytqUTFjNlFaYnFyUllvb2FkK2RNMmQ4K1Y5WWwxQ3F0?= =?utf-8?B?QWlZNnE5ZUNHczdtaFNCdC96U3FVMHNjbnlVRi9Hc1h0RXBRL0JnY2tEeHJO?= =?utf-8?B?cmRkQlhmb0p0Ym5RTnFEZVRzdkx2VTErTDNGRUt0ZGlGMmVMTllRVEFReGts?= =?utf-8?B?SHBkS3hHeFFSam02azdmaFo5MXpMYy9DTVVWWi9QajRFVWpEVndVSnlxSTcx?= =?utf-8?B?MFZRTUJWOUFNWTJzbFVNM2JxL0Q4NG9UWU9TNGhCdnBTS2x3aXVvZDR2ekR0?= =?utf-8?B?eHRzVWVIYTh2dDVhQW1hWXYyc1VBbmZGS1ZMTml4NndnZDlPNGxlSnJ5S0xr?= =?utf-8?B?TFlKa2xmVS9FYVk1UkVwVjFwQXliRmRLV3RCZjFzNEVrRnFjOC9xVTNnQXl5?= =?utf-8?B?QVk5NW4wcVd3TDRhLzFYenVFWkxlK2VuaVcyaWt5UnFXYi85cE5STndKcE1a?= =?utf-8?B?Q3VIcVRmenVkU0lxQU41cDcxWHBzcFNaWlhGVVZnWjMxRmR6WUJ5VElzS2VU?= =?utf-8?B?aFphRVhhRXBMY3I3NTYyRFpVVEpHSmkyV1FiK2l4MnduZ215eG16Y2JvN1N3?= =?utf-8?B?bDFSY2tRdXJ0cHNxeGNhN2g3UFh3dGNMREhkR2IyZktSWlBlZzJCTkk4MCth?= =?utf-8?B?aStQOG9yYXA2eWdKNjh0ZlBXSk42MGxMT2xrMGlhVzZ4VEJFZmlTd29hYVJF?= =?utf-8?B?anY1MjdWVXNTU1FYdnJqRXo2dDRKZW00Y0Z6YTF5SnIrL0ZaYVV3ajN3T3FD?= =?utf-8?B?UktZV25XbFVrd0cyc202Qk1SMlpUd2lRMlNsb0Q1QUJSVUt5QXJONW82VEx4?= =?utf-8?B?WWkxMjAyZDlOanlnR2MwczBWTG5RblN3KzdqSjlKVi9hTlJoL0tta2xzZmds?= =?utf-8?B?UFJ6ZEtlVllEei9VVHRURm1KdFhkSVVzV2Y2RWk1cUpONFpLZ21sTUZkZE1p?= =?utf-8?B?SlFvWTN2Ujg0N0h4Y3JzMklMR1F4OERSdnY0V3VPdFBOVjVCa0ZxdlkyVlI1?= =?utf-8?B?bThEVG1tNXIrNjdLNzhvNnlJczB4eFJlWml6WWtsR014SS81NnhOYnRVMm8v?= =?utf-8?B?cE93RGM0OHFJdEJic1FIS3AxQnNNR3l2Mm9NeWtOTEVDajhPSkxlZkU4VzIz?= =?utf-8?B?RlpmZzJOcjB0R09wcmI2UXQxcGt3OThNald1Rms0WWYraGhoZGZSV043MlNY?= =?utf-8?B?VzNjNU5pYzJBMTNDN0tkMGZvTmdIM09TSEhLL0Y2OGd2MDhTMkQrTmNVREZK?= =?utf-8?B?dnFBejdxcTBFbVhrVlFHaTlNU2hpM3VXUlgxejZQZ0FBR0trSG1takJCZDFU?= =?utf-8?B?azd0TmUxL3ZwM3lVYkhocnozbURQeVRzTTJoZnIvaStBNWJ3TUExdEJndnNn?= =?utf-8?B?N3l3WG0vVWxDbmlkWkg2MjVMdmQ5OG8zUDFvcVFiSUgzQk5FTTFaYi9paDJX?= =?utf-8?B?RnBzUlprWjdyWjhNTmZzWSt2TkpHakh6V1JZcVZqaDVIN25VcVhya0VLWmwx?= =?utf-8?Q?yNAIfPSosc/3zJc+/LCfDAcZeuiPhqTKiwOPfwH?=
X-OriginatorOrg: labn.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ba22cc22-19c9-411c-17d3-08d94c556ef6
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR14MB4792.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jul 2021 14:40:06.9170 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: eb60ac54-2184-4344-9b60-40c8b2b72561
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: uLNbp6MqmFaEsAU6S3UKgMW/2BCAMiN1GE4nLEE9xeJ8fsC7BA9+Tu3IA/sIC0RXfDqsp6MDdVmU3jZHcLphmg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR14MB2536
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/manet/G_bMIraAezuPs9UaA2rNcXYy8YI>
Subject: Re: [manet] Adoption of draft-berger-manet-dlep-ether-credit-extension as a WG document
X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks <manet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/manet>, <mailto:manet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/manet/>
List-Post: <mailto:manet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:manet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet>, <mailto:manet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:40:13 -0000

Other protocols I've worked with use such capability 
advertisement/negotiation -- I raised this point (with Stan?) at the 
time of reviewing the base DLEP standard and was told that DLEP uses the 
extensions to advertise/negotiate capabilities.

Lou

On 7/21/2021 9:34 AM, Rogge, Henning wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the reason why I ask is something I call "Radio/Router Attributes/Capabilities" that I would like to see as a DLEP draft/RFC.
>
> Something like "can transmit multicast" or "can receive multicast", boolean things to know about the other side of the DLEP connection.
>
> Being able to handle VLAN tagged traffic and/or VLAN PCP sounds quite similar.
>
> I think it would be not good if we put each of these boolean capabilities into an extension of its own.
>
> Having one TLV which contains the supported (explicitly not supported things in a second TLV?) could solve this issue and the capability your draft wants to transmit could be the first one using such a TLV.
>
> Henning
>
> ---------------------
>
> Hi Henning,
>
> We're digging into history from > 4 years ago -- at the time the
> directions from the chairs/WG was to break up the documents so that no
> document included more than one extension and that shared objects (data
> items/Sub-data items) go in their own documents.  So this is why we have
> a very short
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep-da-credit-extension/
> as well as draft-berger-manet-dlep-ether-credit-extension
>
> Lou
>
> On 7/21/2021 2:41 AM, Rogge, Henning wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> do I read this "extension" correctly that it doesn't define a single TLV? This feels like a strange way to convey an information. DLEP information should be in TLVs, not in Extensions... extensions only define what TLVs we are allowed to exchange.​
>>
>>
>> Henning Rogge
>> _______________________________________________
>> manet mailing list
>> manet@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet