Re: [manet] AODVv2 responses to recent comments

ietf@thomasclausen.org Thu, 17 March 2016 16:45 UTC

Return-Path: <ietf@thomasclausen.org>
X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7AE12D9AD for <manet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=thomasclausen.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BpxmXelanlYA for <manet@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:45:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E85F612D7D0 for <manet@ietf.org>; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F47245B2D; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thomasclausen.org; s=1.tigertech; t=1458233120; bh=MMFmVyU+htQ97bGK6f2924t/n5ZMIn6pImaXjVOUzUk=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=jYnwKTqv3m6bt2ZzJy2l/wTO7iobV+V/thS7vUmkA/MZ9OyBhrM0OeiKZQHVVXBBE /mOS3dckO44txEzVV+r0E0Vd688pFVd0TSC7njiBAtsOL4Q4BDqRniEMBdF6uORMyJ TR9aSZRnxOUs6cvEtLubiCGc6zefjZ3yQfiR94Ms=
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net
Received: from [129.104.89.231] (unknown [129.104.89.231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4507124030C; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 09:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\))
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_37498805-7607-4E10-A895-32EC22D7D3D5"
From: ietf@thomasclausen.org
In-Reply-To: <B31EEDDDB8ED7E4A93FDF12A4EECD30D9237E2B1@GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:45:17 +0100
Sendlaterdate: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:45:17 +0100
Message-Id: <57FC3561-98D5-4CA8-BE8A-3997CB30EA7F@thomasclausen.org>
References: <CAAePS4DCds3_vqJ8jwymmHWJdH4jXg=ksJ8RO4QqRFL77py7ng@mail.gmail.com> <B31EEDDDB8ED7E4A93FDF12A4EECD30D8A6F4A3D@GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net> <56D4EB7D.4010002@earthlink.net> <B31EEDDDB8ED7E4A93FDF12A4EECD30D8C0227E6@GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net> <944B9E01-74B7-45AD-ACB8-FA79347BC22E@fu-berlin.de> <B31EEDDDB8ED7E4A93FDF12A4EECD30D9237C4D5@GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net> <68F1C08B-82C2-484B-8B9C-71ABE350EB57@fu-berlin.de> <B31EEDDDB8ED7E4A93FDF12A4EECD30D9237E2B1@GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net>
To: Christopher Dearlove <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112)
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/manet/dle3MxuKuMP8b7ET1OCXRq3FMC4>
Cc: Charles Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net>, manet <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [manet] AODVv2 responses to recent comments
X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks <manet.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/manet>, <mailto:manet-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/manet/>
List-Post: <mailto:manet@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:manet-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet>, <mailto:manet-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 16:45:35 -0000

> On 17 Mar 2016, at 17:40, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com> wrote:
> 
> There is a problem when you have information that isn’t public. Though if it’s sent to you wearing IETF hat, is it covered by Note Well?

This is actually an interesting point. As one of the WG chairs is also an author, I would assume that he’d have been a recipient of this information, and that therefore very much should be covered by Note Well?

> But let’s suppose you’ve decided you can’t give details. You probably can still say “Someone has raised an issue with us, we’re trying to get it handled.”. What you (one) can definitely do is bear that in mind and not makes statements that will later appear to be at odds with what you then knew.
>  
> I’m still not clear as to whether there was a late discovered real problem that needed fixing.

I’m with you on that one, coming down on the “…need to be convinced” side of the fence, however.

Thomas
 
> --
> 
> Christopher Dearlove
> Senior Principal Engineer
> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> T:  +44 (0)1245 242194  |  E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com <mailto:chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
> 
> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN.
> www.baesystems.com/ai <http://www.baesystems.com/ai>
> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited
> Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451
> Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP
> 
>  
> From: Lotte Steenbrink [mailto:lotte.steenbrink@fu-berlin.de <mailto:lotte.steenbrink@fu-berlin.de>] 
> Sent: 17 March 2016 16:19
> To: Dearlove, Christopher (UK)
> Cc: Charlie Perkins; manet
> Subject: Re: [manet] AODVv2 responses to recent comments
>  
>  
> *** WARNING ***
> This message originates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner or the internet.
> Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachments or reply.
> For information regarding Red Flags that you can look out for in emails you receive, click here <http://intranet.ent.baesystems.com/howwework/security/spotlights/Documents/Red%20Flags.pdf>.
> If you feel the email is suspicious, please follow this process <http://intranet.ent.baesystems.com/howwework/security/spotlights/Documents/Dealing%20With%20Suspicious%20Emails.pdf>.
> 
> Hello Christopher,
>  
> Am 16.03.2016 um 18:22 schrieb Dearlove, Christopher (UK) <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com <mailto:chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>>:
>  
> I haven’t followed the example (I hope to find time - but that’s true of too many things, with DLEP ahead of AODVv2 on this list).
>  
> But we have a loop, a pretty fundamental problem in a routing algorithm, being discussed by the authors off-list,
>  
> If we could’ve, I would’ve loved to share this with the list immediately. I’m not sure if there’s a procedure for this kind of situation we should’ve followed? If there is, I’d be more than happy to learn from it and do better next time.
> 
> 
> while in parallel assuring the list that “Other discussion about routing loops has not identified routing loop problems in the existing specification.” (see email chain below).
>  
> I think we have a real problem with what’s wanting to advance to Proposed Standard soon, in terms of process and confidence.
>  
> I think I understand where your worries come from. However, I do think our efforts to improve our communication are visible, and apart from the communication delay, the fact that this research exists actually improves my confidence in the document: It found loops that were (imho) pretty tricky to come up with by thinking hard about the problem alone, and we’ve been able to fix them, making AODVv2 more solid.
> 
> 
>  
> (I still haven’t managed to even write up comments on the perhaps one third of the draft I have read through yet.)
>  
> Personally, I’d be happy to go through them in chunks as well :) Maybe that could also speed up the back and forth of „x isn’t quite right“ „would y resolve the issue?“ „yes/no“, which would in turn speed up the progress of this document? Anyhow, all feedback is very welcome.
>  
> Best regards,
> Lotte Steenbrink
>  
> 
> 
>  
> --
> 
> Christopher Dearlove
> Senior Principal Engineer
> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories
> __________________________________________________________________________
> 
> T:  +44 (0)1245 242194  |  E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com <mailto:chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
> 
> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN.
> www.baesystems.com/ai <http://www.baesystems.com/ai>
> BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited
> Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451
> Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP
> 
>  
> ********************************************************************
> This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
> recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender.
> You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or
> distribute its contents to any other person.
> ********************************************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org <mailto:manet@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet>