Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-pause-extension-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Tue, 07 May 2019 14:42 UTC
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To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-manet-dlep-pause-extension@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 10:34:57 -0400
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Subject: Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-pause-extension-06: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Please see responses below... On 5/6/2019 6:40 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Sun, May 05, 2019 at 09:22:16PM -0400, Lou Berger wrote: >> Hi, >> My apologies, I thought I responded to this, but can't seem to find the >> response (hopefully my responses are consistent if I did!). >> >> On 4/10/19 9:00 PM, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker wrote: >>> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-manet-dlep-pause-extension-06: Discuss >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep-pause-extension/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> DISCUSS: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Section 3.1 defines 'Scale' as a four-bit unsigned integer field but only the >>> values 0-3 are assigned, leaving 4-16k usable. How will future values be >>> assigned? >>> >> A future revision or update of this document. We discussed a IANA >> registry, but thought it overkill as future additions seem quite unlikely. > Okay. The Discuss was just to make sure it was considered in some fashion; > we do have a bunch of documents that explictly note "additional values are > to be allocated by updates to this specification" but I do not insist on > it. > >>> In Section 3.1.1: >>> >>> DS Field Qn: >>> >>> The data item contains a sequence of 8 bit DS Fields. The number >>> of DS Fields present MUST equal the sum of all Num DSCPs field >>> values. >>> >>> Perhaps I'm misreading, but I thought the Num DSCPs Qn field was global >>> for this queue index, so there would just be one of them and no need to >>> take a sum. >> It's just saying that more than one DSCP can match to a single queue >> index value. > Okay, if I'm looking at the figure properly then this is just an editorial > issue, then: > > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Queue Index | Queue Size Qn | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Num DSCPs Qn | DS Field Qn | ... : > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > : ... | DS Field Qn | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > So we have the chunk of stuff for a given queue (index), and the size of > that queue, then a separate array/length for the DS values. The various DS > values that can match this queue index are the contents of this array, but > this is the only array in the sub data item describing this queue index. > If that's correct, then isn't the description of "DS Field Qn" just "The > sub data item contains a sequence of 8 bit DS Fields for this queue index. > The number of DS Fields present MUST equal this value."? Yes - I'm fine with a specific text revision if you have one. > >>> In Section 3.3: >>> >>> A router which receives the Restart Data Item SHOULD resume >>> transmission of the identified traffic to the modem. >>> >>> Why is this only a "SHOULD"? >> to cover the case where the router is choosing not to send data, e.g., >> due to lack of available data or other policy such as traffic rate shaping. > Okay. Frequently documents will give the reader some hint as to what the > exceptional cases might be, but I will not insist on it here. > > >>> Section 4 >>> >>> The extension does not inherently >>> introduce any additional vulnerabilities above those documented in >>> [RFC8175]. [...] >>> >>> As noted by others, this sentence is just not true. >>> I will not duplicate the suggestions for additional considerations that >>> need to be documented. >> Please see comments / discussion elsewhere on this. > Sorry, most of these threads have aged out of my cache; could you give me a > hint about whose ballot thread to look in, or a link? Perhaps it's just best to point you at the current text and see if you're okay with it -- see https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-manet-dlep-pause-extension-07#section-4 and let me/us know if you still have any unresolved comments. >>> In particular, I agree with Roman that the use >>> of TLS needs to be mandatory, especially since this protocol is >>> nominally only defined for use with radio links. >> >> As covered elsewhere, in particular this is really a comment on base >> DLEP and I think this extension should be consistent with that document. >> (Consider an example from when 8175 was issued, consider the case where >> the modem and router use MACsec, 802.1X and 802.1 AE, why is TLS needed >> as well.) > Perhaps. I think it's highly dependent on whether DLEP is only conveyed > over wired links and the physical scope of those links, though -- my > understanding is that most of the IESG was treating this protocol as > running over the radio link. umm, DLEP is *NEVER* expected to run over the air. This is covered in RFC8175 and is not impacted by this extension. Thanks, Lou >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Section 3.1 >>> >>> Any errors or inconsistencies >>> encountered in parsing Sub Data Items are handled in the same fashion >>> as any other Data Item parsing error encountered in DLEP. >>> >>> I had a hard time finding the indicated behavior in RFC 8175 -- "error" >>> does not appear at all (and "erroneous" only twice, for IP address >>> processing, v4 and v6); "parse" only appears once (in the Session >>> Initialization State); "inconsistent" apprears several times but I did >>> not see one that seemed to be a generic catch-all case. It's probably >>> worth putting in a section reference or changing the text to use >>> keywords that are searchable in RFC 8175. >>> >> I've added the typical text from 8175to remove any ambiguity: >> >> In particular, the receiving implementation MUST issue a >> Session Termination Message containing a Status Data Item with >> status code set to 130 'Invalid Data' and transition to the >> Session Termination state. > Thanks. > >>> Section 3.1.1 >>> >>> Queue Size Qn: >>> >>> A 24-bit unsigned integer representing the size, in the octet >>> scale indicated by the Scale field, of the queue supporting >>> traffic with the DSCPs associated with the queue index. >>> >>> Is there any value in including a specific sentinel value that indicates >>> that the modem cannot or does not wish to state the size of the >>> corresponding queue? >> As here is no requirement for the modem to set this, I'm not sure if >> there would be any value in such. >> >>> Section 3.2 >>> >>> A router which receives the Pause Data Item MUST cease sending the >>> identified traffic to the modem. This may of course translate into >>> the router's queues exceeding their own thresholds. If a received >>> Pause Data Item contains a Queue Index value other than 255, or a >>> queue index established by a Session Initialization or Session Update >>> Message, the router MUST terminate the session with a Status Data >>> Item indicating Invalid Data. >>> >>> This would be a nit, but actually has serious functional consequences: >>> remove the comma after "255". The current text says that if the router >>> receives a queue index established by a Session Initialization message, >>> the router MUST terminate the session, which does not seem to be the >>> intent! >> done. >> >>> Section 3.3 >>> >>> The Restart Data Item is used by a modem to indicate to its peer that >>> transmission of previously suppressed traffic may be resumed. An >>> example of when a modem might send this data item is when an internal >>> queue length drops below a particular threshold. >>> >>> This seems like a fine place to suggest the application of hysteresis >>> (i.e., that the "particular threshold" here might be lower than the one >>> indicated in Section 3.2). >>> >>> Section 5.x >>> >>> It's not clear to me what value there is in repeating the registration >>> policy of the registries from which codepoints are being allocated. >>> IANA will apply the correct policy, and the reader of this document >>> doesn't need to care what policy was applied. >> This section will get revised as part of final processing so defer to >> both IANA and the RFC editor on this. > Sounds good! > > Thanks, > > Ben >
- [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ma… Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker
- Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Lou Berger
- Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Lou Berger
- Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [manet] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-iet… Lou Berger