From christopher.dearlove@gmail.com Tue Jan 30 03:43:27 2024 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D987CC014563 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:43:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.106 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.106 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N2QqQ8_ynnVA for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63ADFC014565 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-55a9008c185so6707878a12.1 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:43:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1706615002; x=1707219802; darn=ietf.org; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=frXwY9rhWXKnjWwYNWv7OQpv/8+2p7LhMwveYmzlIPk=; b=Iv7+fshlyv8LpId0k3IASx/bVNgKeskyMIFqWSFh9aRzJuPJNDIQglJNHl/gpEk5Yh 8MK1jRTjL6xR6tBQGodfsvOM9jCJhKDaQnnzmpOnwzn5YiB6a7pLRDgzpu09IZjLwkgL UZS8La2jsKChlE8eu8v9e7+kii8uA895WsNcTBUXgnDzHpEpz6EoVQdnrpn1IXkG6h+3 yMVoF7LHoNmcksX3N0Eylds8dxZlqvne6p79tE/5YdMY2jlj4Gu20gBQmPE+nii1TDxL SXFFGuWQUWI7vTVG9sAHmcvMywNhQur4woDeM6TzGhlvDgCvsL7QRRS6yqm5NQgrygic EQzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1706615002; x=1707219802; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=frXwY9rhWXKnjWwYNWv7OQpv/8+2p7LhMwveYmzlIPk=; b=EJLCvVW8KgaH6Mvj6mbyk8rehsplcfSvqdZZ+/27v3QzVrNxF6mYqOXIj8qEXd8PRX uQalWqtoiOSV1SdhhbqCeNnfXKWqsxNXQBiRsM40U/BxTHB/+lQ3G5AhbnZuz+LCQZb1 nTCno0xFiOpADjf8CuXINvDVq0fqBR/AQlE68j6QgzqQvB7LsWt881CYvgqJRCgUecqf z2rI6u6Sbr3NX2yAR2MM/VjUuYQvXQRbQCRfbA8+LXmZcrDp0+pvdIClwqpR4Bo4gPin YbwXrLKsd8wg5ztB3+OdXEJaoXzYDHeSvBFOjZsrQRxMt5S71/XKWI2XdMhdyjfeLodj QZAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzyxOTtASY5O8zZIXPm3yMl1k+FZ2edwI6LKgna7bmGoxDAiptA p2QNm+2bndH+1FWW7wZLrzx8VjpO1oTx+nh/ttNw0LybksocfIAP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHezJBBMjebiD1ssOoNGglcNQs++sO2Koxs3407z32xqxoRUhXXWF+TQVKiWyaoR3zzBdnqIw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:2cf:b0:55c:a9f0:214d with SMTP id b15-20020a05640202cf00b0055ca9f0214dmr1312895edx.10.1706615001383; Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:43:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (82-132-226-203.dab.02.net. [82.132.226.203]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fi5-20020a056402550500b005583e670df7sm4793927edb.73.2024.01.30.03.43.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 30 Jan 2024 03:43:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) From: Christopher Dearlove In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 11:43:09 +0000 Cc: Abdussalam Baryun , "Robert B CIV USN NRL (5522) Washington DC Adamson (USA)" , MANET IETF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <514800B1-D65A-4352-B5A4-88CEB429E04E@gmail.com> References: <34F68A6F-F4A3-4B9C-A4DD-549246154F67@nrl.navy.mil> <86A7B91A-E3E6-4DBF-9D0F-2E2C58229237@gmail.com> To: Henning Rogge X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] SMF in Manet and MPR X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2024 11:43:27 -0000 That none of us even wrote an ID suggesting it is fairly indicative of = that we all - independently I think - thought of this as a hack. Not = even an experiment as IETF uses the word (though an experiment in the = broader use of the word). (An informational ID describing it could have been written, but clearly = no one thought that worthwhile.) > On 30 Jan 2024, at 09:43, Henning Rogge wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 9:51=E2=80=AFAM Christopher Dearlove > wrote: >> RFC 5444 is mandated for use on the MANET UDP port (and IP protocol) = by RFC 5498 and repeated in RFC 8245. Any other use is optional, but = there=E2=80=99s no good reason to use it on the data plane. >>=20 >> There was an (or possibly more than one) experimental - I don=E2=80=99t= believe it even made it to an ID, but was implemented and reported in = at least one paper - use of OLSR for an SMF-like approach to multicast, = intercepting the data packets in the IP stack, encapsulating them as a = new OLSR message type, flooded using OLSR, then converted back to IP = data plane at destinations. This was rather a hack and the SMF approach = was to supersede that, keeping data in the data plane where it belongs. >=20 > the OLSR (v1) implementation of olsr.org had a "BMF" plugin that did > exactly that... encapsulating IP traffic into OLSR messages to forward > them. >=20 > It wasn't a nice thing, good that we did not standardize this. >=20 > Henning Rogge