Re: [Manycouches] IETF109 starts at noon (local time)

On 19-Oct-20 12:11, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On 2020-10-19, at 00:46, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>>>> First, I would like to know why we can do 9hr long days in person,  while we
>>>> can't even manage 7.5 hour virtual days.
>>
>>> It is called Zoom fatigue.  It is very real.
>>
>> Is it worse to have 6 hours of meetings in a 7.5 hr time (with 30 minute breaks)
>> vs 6 hours of meetings in a 9hr time (with 1.5hr breaks)?  
> 
> It’s worse for those people who are then pushed into uncomfortable times of day.
> 
>>>> I don't think it helps people in any of the time zones.
>>
>>> (It sure helps the Europeans.)
>>
>> Ah, yes.  I understand.
>> I thought were were supposed to optimize the meeting for the Asia-Pacificans :-)
>> Didn't we optimize it for the Europeans last time?
> 
> I just tried to point out something you didn’t consider when you said this wasn't helping.
> I wasn’t part of the decision to actually make use of this simple optimization.
> 
> (Sharing the pain doesn’t mean that you inflict it unnecessarily where it can be easily avoided.  Something that is sometimes surprisingly hard to explain, in particular to kids that still have a pre-salomonic concept of justice…)
> 
> Actually, it turns out this meeting is really optimized for the Indians; 0600 is an ungodly time for most of the CS-type people in Central Europe (and it’s 0500 for IE/UK and PT).

I think one of our problems here is the word "optimise" (we can't even optimize how to spell it). I once knew a senior director at CERN who defined his job as "finding the best possible distribution of unhappiness" and I think that's really what we have to focus on. Everybody is going to be somewhat unhappy, so what we should do is spread the unhappiness around as fairly as possible.

Beyond that, I think that Stephen Farrell's message asks the correct question that we should answer first, so I'll stop there.

   Brian

> 
> […]
> 
>>> Eat during session then.  (Don’t forget to mute :-)
>>
>> really, what I'm saying is that we are short-changing the hallway/gather.town track.
> 
> I’m very much with you on that — 108 certainly had breaks that were too short for doing that.  The 30 minute breaks of 109 should be better, but not by much.
> 
> If you put in 1.5 h breaks, I for one will rather take a nap :-) (outside office hours), or get drawn into some unrelated activities during office hours.
> 
> Note that we *can* use the time before the first and after the last meeting in gather.town.  We just can’t expect Europeans to be there for the former and New Zealanders for the latter.  As long as these are informal meetings, that’s OK.
> 
> Grüße, Carsten
> 
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