Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking trackers
Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Tue, 05 November 2019 23:56 UTC
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To: Töma Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
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From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2019 15:55:40 -0800
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Subject: Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking trackers
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On 11/5/2019 1:32 PM, Töma Gavrichenkov wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 5, 2019, 8:15 PM Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com > <mailto:ted.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote: > > The box you've described is fundamentally a traffic analysis > tool. From the business perspective, it's likely a subscription > service > > > I skipped that before, yet I think I have to say this: in the today's > world, every DPI middlebox (worth ordering by whoever willing to make > any profit on top of that) has this subscription service. As has been > rightly pointed out in this thread before, this is now an arms race, > and we should expect the device to be updated on a weekly basis at > least, and every maybe other hour at worst, or even worse. It is an interesting topic, quickly delving into "spy vs spy" territory. The general idea of the "stealth VPN" is to mimic the traffic of some applications that are known to pass through the firewalls. The general idea of the "network censor" is to find ways to distinguish the traffic they want to allow from the traffic they want to block without generating too many false positive. That game can go on for a long time, with progress in detection matched over time by progress in stealth, and vice-versa. This is similar to what happens with viruses that are being tested against anti-virus software, and then anti-virus software that are updated to catch the latest viruses, a "game" that has been going on for at least two decades. I don't think that the IETF can play that game, not when it takes more than 3 years to produce a standard. The IRTF can play a role, and PEARG would be a good place to publicize knowledge about censorship techniques. But even the IRTF is probably too slow for the tit-for-tat game. What the IETF might do, on the other hand, is to take requirements from stealth designers on desired features of protocols. Not so much actual stealth features, although it is clearly desirable to avoid making Masque to easy to recognize. I am more thinking of features like a padding API or cover traffic API that might then be used by the stealth designers. -- Christian Huitema
- [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tracke… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Nick Harper
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… David Schinazi
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Ben Schwartz
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Lucas Pardue
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Töma Gavrichenkov
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Lucas Pardue
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Masque] MASQUE detection through tracking tr… Derek Fawcus