Re: [Masque] MASQUE and Tor "pluggable transports"

Philipp Winter <phw@torproject.org> Wed, 07 August 2019 22:05 UTC

Return-Path: <phw@torproject.org>
X-Original-To: masque@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: masque@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1201200DF for <masque@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 15:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id px8-O2dT-A-q for <masque@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 15:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A170120232 for <masque@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 15:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bell.riseup.net (bell-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7FAC1A26DC; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 15:05:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Riseup-User-ID: C6335E488A8C7B32946893AE863C2B8E4A5BC98F70D78FDCD74D5CA9364ED969
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bell.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 625AA22243C; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 15:05:14 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2019 15:05:14 -0700
From: Philipp Winter <phw@torproject.org>
To: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: masque@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20190807220514.6e4h5hkzrnkqpfpx@nymity.ch>
Reply-To: masque@ietf.org
Mail-Followup-To: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, masque@ietf.org
References: <20190806162044.etph52mdghi6mtlb@nymity.ch> <CAHbrMsDCGzVeCj3v0CX6Q-zDNi_beEymA_Z0eKfyWYY933yBWw@mail.gmail.com> <CAG3f7MgynP7+fTYA_uojWxvzbMvbgrqfkZPFL4MvatAXNKF1WQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAPDSy+7JLSpNMfSH8520sbFDmd2=Ec+1sV92c3-QUi0r_-tkhA@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAPDSy+7JLSpNMfSH8520sbFDmd2=Ec+1sV92c3-QUi0r_-tkhA@mail.gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/masque/T5oIwIoHy5uECXax6YniPXONKC4>
Subject: Re: [Masque] MASQUE and Tor "pluggable transports"
X-BeenThere: masque@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC Encryption <masque.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/masque>, <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/masque/>
List-Post: <mailto:masque@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/masque>, <mailto:masque-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2019 22:05:22 -0000

On Tue, Aug 06, 2019 at 12:29:37PM -0700, David Schinazi wrote:
> We're still at the early stages for MASQUE - the document doesn't yet
> define a wire-format that can be implemented - but once we get a first
> draft of that written up and start implementing it, I'd love to
> experiment with pluggable transports to see how well the obfuscation
> bit of MASQUE plays with them.

Thanks for your interest!  I'd be happy to help out once MASQUE reaches
this stage.

> Additionally, once we've accomplished the goal of using MASQUE to help
> obfuscate Tor traffic, there is interest in the community to go for
> something more ambitious, which is a tighter integration between
> MASQUE (as a way to proxy QUIC over QUIC) and onion routing. We
> suspect that this integration could help with overall performance, but
> a lot of code needs to be written to see if the theory hold water.

FYI, here's a recent summary of this effort, which you may already be
familiar with:
<https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2018-March/013026.html>

Cheers,
Philipp