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Re: [MBONED] A concern about draft-acg-mboned-multicast-models recommendations

Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> Fri, 02 March 2018 08:38 UTC

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From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
CC: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>, "mboned@ietf.org" <mboned@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MBONED] A concern about draft-acg-mboned-multicast-models recommendations
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Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 08:38:13 +0000
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References: <CAH8Jh6DikQa-9Kft0WdyGZYCPjWLScNVtYce2=EyL1q+0rAYVg@mail.gmail.com> <20180227231838.GI67472@cs-it-6805697.local> <CD402244-A3B3-4988-AB45-404B87DBEA94@jisc.ac.uk> <CAH8Jh6CRvvREZXoXH4mw8WecdHCzsvbPt5tHoNQwPGLauCoXOg@mail.gmail.com> <510DB303-A90E-45A8-A2AF-0366FD57122F@jisc.ac.uk> <e16f2a5580ec4e0e8977489680b14b49@XCH15-01-07.nw.nos.boeing.com> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1803020852220.20609@uplift.swm.pp.se>
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Subject: Re: [MBONED] A concern about draft-acg-mboned-multicast-models recommendations
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On 2 Mar 2018, at 07:57, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se<mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se>> wrote:

On Thu, 1 Mar 2018, Manfredi, Albert E wrote:

I get that inter-domain, with PIM-SM, that simplicity cannot exist. So inter-domain, SSM is actually simpler. It removes that rendezvous point complication, and then having to find a better route around it, for the multicasts.

It makes it easier for the network, but it might make it harder for the applications.

Personally I do not know enough about what multicast applications are out there and why it might make their lives much easier if ASM exists, but I imagine these exist. The classic case was a many-user video conference where you had no application layer protocol to understand who might be sending video to you. I remember the 90ties where there was a multicast group with lots of webcams in it, so you could get real time glimpses of the world. There you just pointed your client to the multicast group and it split up each camera into a separate window, without any need for a source discovery protocol in the client.

I remember that too. In around 2001/02 many of us in the European NRENs and universities were in a project called 6NET, where we had multicast conferencing tools running over IPv6 multicast, using UCL's vic and rat clients, and tools like ssmping and dbeacon for debugging, and also Stig's v4/v6 gateway (which I recall was written up as an IETF draft but didn't get adopted).  But that was over an ASM group on the 'm6bone' with a single RP; it was that project that then came up with the idea of Embedded-RP, in part from trying to run applications such as these were clients could join/leave at any time. It was a lot of fun, and hard to think it was now 16+ years ago!

A piece of history attached; this was a screenshot of a session where I was demoing the tools at the IST2002 conference. Stig was joined via IPv4, to demonstrate his gateway, the rest over IPv6.  Hopefully a 100K image isn't breaking list etiquette :)

Tim
[cid:05F0B5D3-AD5E-4A02-9A51-217CF8D02FD6]

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