Re: [MBONED] [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype: Multicast Receive API

["Holland, Jake" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Gyan,

> Have you looked at WebRTC.

As I understand it (not very deeply), WebRTC does not support multicast since it requires the use of SRTP.
> Gyan>  Did google say why they are not interested?
In the net-dev thread you linked, I believe they indicated it needs good consensus on the security implications before they’d consider accepting it.

We tried to kick off that discussion at 112, but nobody has responded with further discussion yet except for the comments during the secdispatch presentation.  But the discussion was dispatched to the msec list:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/msec/FYx5GsAtAyI3pypPIlJ_s3vtiwc/

The other thing they said in the net-dev thread you linked was they don’t want it to be part of their maintenance burden even if it’s cleaned up.  I expect this would change if the multicast traffic were likely to be delivered, which is why (as described in the msec message) we’re shifting focus to start getting some deployment of non-browser multicast to establish some places where delivery does actually work.

They also indicated in the thread that they do not have a goal of making multicast delivery more attractive to ISPs by adding support in the browser.  I hope to change their minds eventually, but that’s still where it stands today.

> Gyan>  Alternative that might get adopted by Google so they can integrate natively into the browser?

Yes.  The rough approach I’m starting is also outlined in the msec thread linked above, but I don’t have a draft written yet.  Not certain whether it’ll be out for 113, but maybe.  Probably will still be working on it though and won’t have a presentation about it yet.

HTH, and I’m glad you’re interested.  I’d love to know more about what kind of use cases you’re looking into.

-Jake

From: Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed,2022-02-23 at 8:49 AM
To: "Holland, Jake" <[e-mail]>
Cc: MBONED WG <[e-mail]>, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype: Multicast Receive API

Jake

Have you looked at WebRTC.

I believe there is a chrome plugin but not sure if the plug-in allows multicast to play natively.  I wonder if that plug-in could be tweaked to get multicast to work as well as an alternative.

Thanks

Gyan

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 11:46 AM Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Excellent!

Questions in-line

Thanks

Gyan

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 11:04 AM Holland, Jake <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Gyan,

it’s not currently expected to make it into the upstream, as Google said they’re not interested.  However, an implementation is available for experimenting with.
 Gyan>  Did google say why they are not interested?
I’ve been maintaining a fork that implements the proposed api (but does not have the authentication functionality implemented):
https://github.com/GrumpyOldTroll/chromium_fork<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/GrumpyOldTroll/chromium_fork__;!!GjvTz_vk!FBIPYCQrN0By_vJcKO_V9-zzmIyeuhaXJE1vlu09N1VmnYDsPvSJ-lVRAzhk2S4$>
 Gyan>  That’s great.   I will try testing it out
I’ve been keeping it approximately up to date with chromium releases.  There’s .deb binaries linked from the repo that you can experiment with, and there’s an example page that uses the api at https://grumpyoldtroll.github.io/wicg-multicast-receiver-api/demo-multicast-receive-api.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/grumpyoldtroll.github.io/wicg-multicast-receiver-api/demo-multicast-receive-api.html__;!!GjvTz_vk!FBIPYCQrN0By_vJcKO_V9-zzmIyeuhaXJE1vlu09N1VmnYDsPvSJ-lVR0cZe9DQ$>.
 Gyan> Excellent
I’m looking into alternatives that might have a better chance at moving forward and getting adoption based on the feedback we got so far, and as soon as one of those is operational I’ll probably stop maintaining that fork and put up a note to the new thing, but for now that’s what I’ve got.
Gyan>  Alternative that might get adopted by Google so they can integrate natively into the browser?


The primary discussion venue for this is the W3C multicast community group.  You can get a rough idea of what we’ve been thinking from the meeting logs and videos:
https://github.com/w3c/multicast-cg/tree/main/meetings<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/w3c/multicast-cg/tree/main/meetings__;!!GjvTz_vk!FBIPYCQrN0By_vJcKO_V9-zzmIyeuhaXJE1vlu09N1VmnYDsPvSJ-lVRUVb7XEU$>
 Gyan> Thanks
HTH,
Jake

From: Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Tue,2022-02-22 at 8:15 PM
To: "Holland, Jake" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, MBONED WG <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype: Multicast Receive API


Dear Jake, Toerless and MBONED

Does anyone know the status of this project to allow Chrome browser to play multicast natively.

The issue was that NPAPI plug-in is not supported and so multicast cannot play natively.

So some dev work was needed to get this fixed and working for MBONE community at large.

https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/net-dev/c/TjbMyPKuRHs?pli=1<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/net-dev/c/TjbMyPKuRHs?pli=1__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNFRnRSVq8$>


Copy/paste from link above.

Moving blink-dev@ to BCC and forwarding this to the net-dev@ mailing list.

This work proposes adding support for new network protocols to Chromium, which has security and privacy consequences. net-dev@ is the mailing list where this conversation should start. From private communications with the proposers of this new API their primary goal at this stage of development is to land an experimental implementation within Chromium in order to facilitate iteration and evaluation of the technology.
Reilly Grant | Software Engineer | [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> | Google Chrome<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.google.com/chrome__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNFJ2r6e6c$>


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 1:31 PM 'Holland, Jake' via blink-dev <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Contact emails
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>, [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

Explainer

https://github.com/GrumpyOldTroll/wicg-multicast-receiver-api/blob/master/explainer.md<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/GrumpyOldTroll/wicg-multicast-receiver-api/blob/master/explainer.md__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNFmW_6mkM$>

Specification

TBD: API spec and design document (currently just entering Intent to Prototype).
IETF standards-track docs (all presently works in progress):
- draft-ietf-mboned-ambi<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/draft-ietf-mboned-ambi/__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNFhiTQ8xc$>
- draft-ietf-mboned-dorms<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/draft-ietf-mboned-dorms/__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNFpBPIpck$>
- draft-ietf-mboned-mnat<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/draft-ietf-mboned-mnat/__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNFEzNi_XI$>
- draft-ietf-mboned-cbacc<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/draft-ietf-mboned-cbacc/__;!!GjvTz_vk!DhNFIJSjLlBTt2ff1aIHLB55Hz9D_vR8WG3b2uPJ37dr9hNIU4dghgNF9SrvDFo$>
(There will be integrated components prototyped in the browser feature based an appropriate subset of the above specs before origin trials begin.)


Summary

Subscribe to source-specific multicast IP channels and receive UDP payloads in web applications.
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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

Email [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

M 301 502-1347

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Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

Email [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

M 301 502-1347

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[Image removed by sender.]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.verizon.com/__;!!GjvTz_vk!FBIPYCQrN0By_vJcKO_V9-zzmIyeuhaXJE1vlu09N1VmnYDsPvSJ-lVRgbkYpRA$>

Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect

Email [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>

M 301 502-1347