[MBONED] 107/vInterim mtg mins

Leonard Giuliano <lenny@juniper.net> Tue, 21 April 2020 19:59 UTC

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Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:59:32 -0700
From: Leonard Giuliano <lenny@juniper.net>
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Subject: [MBONED] 107/vInterim mtg mins
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All,

Excellent meeting today, thanks for all who stuck around to the end.  Even 
bigger thanks to Femi for taking mins for both WGs.  Below are the meeting 
mins from the etherpad.  Please take a look while it's still fresh in you 
mind to add/correct anything.  You can make edits directly to the 
etherpad:

https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-107-pim

Chairs, 5 min

Multicast to the Browser: draft-ietf-mboned-ambi-00, 
draft-ietf-mboned-cbacc-00, draft-ietf-mboned-dorms-00
Jake Holland, 30 min
Dino Farinacci: Use asymmetric keys?  But no good algorithms that are fast 
enough
Jake Holland: Performance of security suites prohibitive.  Probably 
worthwhile writing up that approach for when fast enough security 
approaches become available
Dino Farinacci: Different mechanism to do authentication and authorization 
since authorization can be done much quicker?
Jake Holland: Authentication is crucial
Toerless Eckert: Isn't AMBI really necessary for only DRM-encumbered 
receivers?
Jake Holland: There are some other scenarios when AMBI is needed
Toerless Eckert: Broadcast DRM traffic well-resourced and deployed.  Isn't 
that the answer to that threat model?
Jake Holland: Diffcult to check in code to browser relying on only DRM
Greg Shepherd: Perhaps consider taking to Nanog or other forums with 
carriers
Jake Holland: Seeking carriers/content owners to particpate in POCs and 
trials

Multicast to the Grandma (MTTG) Update
Lenny Giuliano, 25 min
Greg Shepherd: "People don't hate multicast they hate PIM", i.e. the 
problem is not network replication but rather the complexity designed to 
facilitate the replication
Lenny Giulano: "People don't hate PIM SSM they hate PIM ASM"
Toerless Eckert: PIM-SSM is simple enough for all broadcast. BIER is a 
great simplification over PIM-SM and enables new 
"sender-control-applications". Multicast via BGP is for operators that 
never learned a second language beside BGP ;-)
Jake Holland: PIM SSM easier to follow that MBGP VPN.  The BIER drafts are 
interesting and solving per-hop scale issues and reducing operational 
complexity is worthwhile.
Toerless Eckert: Complementary to Jake Holland's effort.  How does it 
interact with Verizon's presentation where the use of a local agent is 
used to change multicast traffic to unicast so browsers are unaltered
Gyan Mishra: Rather than developing in-house from scratch, consider other 
approaches (e.g. webRTC) but ultimately approach was to use Ramp product
Jake Holland: Key to be able to deploy multicast to the actually browser 
itself
Greg Sheperd: Requirement that source be multicast is not ideal  Easier to 
have concept of multicast for distribution but  no reason why sources can 
unicast traffic to the FHR
Dino Farinacci: Does not really matter how data is sourced, as long as 
multicast service model used for distribution.  Can be flexible, depending 
on constraints of source applications. Also need to deal with NAT 
traversal if source is smartphone which is harder for multicast source 
than unicast
Dino Farinacci: Need someone to write app to take video traffic from a 
phone and send to the network, in either unicast or multicast
Leonard Giulano: Looking for potential open source apps