Re: [Mcast-wifi] Multicast and Wireless (fwd)
"Mark Hamilton" <mark.hamilton2152@gmail.com> Wed, 19 July 2017 17:41 UTC
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From: Mark Hamilton <mark.hamilton2152@gmail.com>
To: 'Mikael Abrahamsson' <swmike@swm.pp.se>, mcast-wifi@ietf.org
Cc: 'Donald Eastlake' <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:41:17 -0600
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Subject: Re: [Mcast-wifi] Multicast and Wireless (fwd)
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Thanks for the update, and prod, Mikael. One clarification, and one question/remark: 802.1ak has been pulled into 802.1Q as of 802.1Q-2011. So just for clarity, I think we're talking about 802.1Q-2014 [ http://www.ieee802.org/1/pages/802.1Q-2014.html ] (I assume we should reference the latest), and its specification of MRP (clause 10, and related). The question/remark: I apologize that I'm not up-to-speed on the discussions during this gathering. But, I am concerned with a consideration that 802.11 could somehow use MRP to help with this. Typically, 802.11 is limited in scope to being a "MAC/PHY stack" under (within?) a Bridge Port, and it is does not understand or directly interact with any of the Bridging protocols flowing over its links. There is a project underway in 802.11 (802.11ak) which will catch up 802.11 to the latest 802.1 specs for such links (802.1AC, etc.), but I don't believe that will add sufficient understanding of Bridging protocols to provide direct information from MRP, either. Is the suggestion that 802.11 be further enhanced to be able to participate in MRP? Or, is there confusion about 802.11 acting like a Bridge (and an assumption that it would therefore participate in MRP, etc.), which is a common issue? Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mcast-wifi [mailto:mcast-wifi-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mikael Abrahamsson Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:51 AM To: mcast-wifi@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mcast-wifi] Multicast and Wireless (fwd) Hi, Below is an email I wrote to the approximately 10 people who were "gathered" to discuss how to proceed with the wifi-multicast "problem". In the meeting, there were lots of discussions, some regarding catching up with what had been discussed before, but the last 30 minutes (in my opinion) were productive. There were solutions proposed, and I'd like to get shared here in writing. Please invite more interested people and make them aware of this list, and let's do the discussions here. I will do some announcements on other lists to bring awareness to this list. One proposal was that we could make sure <http://www.ieee802.org/1/pages/802.1ak.html> http://www.ieee802.org/1/pages/802.1ak.html was available in end systems, and this could be adapted by 802.11 as one way to help the APs handle multicast load by letting them more easily identify how to turn multicast packets into unicast packets. Another proposal was to just do less multicast by redesigning IETF protocols and how they behave. WHen we're saying multicast here, we're talking L1/L2 multicast, ie sending multicast/broadcast packets over wifi between devices connected to the same L2 domain. This can be IPv6 ND/RA packets, but also service discover such as Bonjour packets. I would like to have the people who proposed the solutions to elaborate on what their thinking was. ---- Hi, there is nothing concrete being proposed as far as I know. Alia indicated to me she was still looking for a problem statement. The problem statement I was involved in writing 2 years ago: <https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2013/01/multicast-problem-statem ent.pptx> https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2013/01/multicast-problem-stateme nt.pptx <https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04903.html> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg04903.html <https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-intarea-1.pdf> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-intarea-1.pdf At the end there are multiple links to problem statements etc. >From what I can tell, there is a problem. It's unclear what should be >done about it, if this is a IEEE problem to make sure wifi works well with multicast, or if IETF should adapt its protocols to handle the way IEEE does multicast over 802.11 without the special mechanisms for improved multicast reliability that isn't widely implemented in currently shipping devices. So I guess this is what we're supposed to consider. _______________________________________________ Mcast-wifi mailing list <mailto:Mcast-wifi@ietf.org> Mcast-wifi@ietf.org <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mcast-wifi> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mcast-wifi
- Re: [Mcast-wifi] Multicast and Wireless (fwd) Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [Mcast-wifi] Multicast and Wireless (fwd) Mark Hamilton