Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-soc-overload-design
Volker Hilt <volker.hilt@alcatel-lucent.com> Mon, 30 August 2010 14:58 UTC
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Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:58:27 -0400
From: Volker Hilt <volker.hilt@alcatel-lucent.com>
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To: "Parthasarathi R (partr)" <partr@cisco.com>
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Cc: "Paul Jones (paulej)" <paulej@cisco.com>, "sip-overload@ietf.org" <sip-overload@ietf.org>, "mediactrl@ietf.org" <mediactrl@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-soc-overload-design
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Partha, if other load causes a congestion collapse on the SIP signaling plane of a server, it is within the scope of an overload control algorithm. Whenever a SIP server runs out of resources to process incoming SIP messages, it needs to take action to make sure it is not encountering a SIP congestion collapse. It may use other mechanisms or intelligent design choices to control the load generated by other processes on a SIP server. E.g., it may perform access control for admitting audio streams for processing, use overload control mechanism for other protocols, give less priority to other processes (e.g., a virus scanner), etc. Thanks, Volker On 8/30/2010 1:42 AM, Parthasarathi R (partr) wrote: > My point is same as Janet's. I wish that SIP overload design document > has to explicitly indicate about congestion collapse in SIP server due > to other loads (like RTP message) is outside the scope of the document. > Without this text in the document, the implementers of SIP servers with > other load handling may be mislead. > Thanks > Partha > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Janet P Gunn [mailto:jgunn6@csc.com] > *Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 2:04 AM > *To:* Volker Hilt > *Cc:* mediactrl@ietf.org; Parthasarathi R (partr); Paul Jones (paulej); > sip-overload@ietf.org; sip-overload-bounces@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-soc-overload-design > > > I guess the points are: > 1- If a SIP actor is experiencing overload (regardless of whether the > overload is due to "too many SIP messages" or something else entirely) > it needs to reduce the rate at which SIP messages arrive at the SIP > actor (the focus of this document). > 2- If the overload is largely due to something other than SIP messages, > then ONLY reducing the arrival of SIP messages may not significantly > reduce the overload, and you may still have congestion collapse. > 3- For devices which are SIP actors, and also serve other loads (e.g. > RTP, database lookup, ISUP gateway), it is to be hoped that there is an > overload control mechanism for each type of traffic, and that the > mechanisms are coordinated in a sensible way (so that no one type of > traffic is starved out by the others). But, other than a passing > comment, that is out of scope for a document on SIP Overload Control. > > Janet > > This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please > delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in > delivery. > NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC > to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written > agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of > e-mail for such purpose. > > > From: Volker Hilt <volker.hilt@alcatel-lucent.com> > To: "Parthasarathi R (partr)" <partr@cisco.com> > Cc: "mediactrl@ietf.org" <mediactrl@ietf.org>, "sip-overload@ietf.org" > <sip-overload@ietf.org>, "Paul Jones \(paulej\)" <paulej@cisco.com> > Date: 08/29/2010 04:16 PM > Subject: Re: [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-soc-overload-design > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Partha, > > the CPU load of a SIP server can increase for many reasons, not only the > processing of RTP packets. For example, the system might start the daily > backup of a database, apply patches, run a virus scan or launch another > application. > > If any of these events leads to a shortage of CPU cycles in which the > SIP server may not be able to process all incoming SIP messages, it > should use overload control to reduce the number of SIP messages. > > Thanks, > > Volker > > > > > On 8/29/2010 4:06 PM, Parthasarathi R (partr) wrote: > > Volker, > > I doubt whether the current draft will serve for all SIP servers. I'm > > taking the example of B2BUA with media (RTP)topology hiding > > functionality and there is no DSP, DS0 or DISK resource involved. Here, > > Server experiences an overload of SIP message not just because of > > incoming SIP messages but also due to the incoming RTP messages and RTP > > messages flow varies depend upon the dialog (call) hold time whereas > > there may not any SIP message when the dialog is established. SIP > > processor mentioned in the system model of this draft may be shared the > > physical processor with RTP messages or other protocols messages. We > > have the problem in incorporating the current SIP overload design in > > media handling SIP devices. > > I'm including mediactrl to hear their experience with SIP overload > > design and mediactrl combined SIP implementation. > > > > Thanks > > Partha > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Volker Hilt [mailto:volker.hilt@alcatel-lucent.com] > > *Sent:* Sun 8/29/2010 11:43 PM > > *To:* Parthasarathi R (partr) > > *Cc:* Salvatore Loreto; sip-overload@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-soc-overload-design > > > > Partha, > > > > the design document discusses problems related to the overload of SIP > > messages. Any server that processes SIP messages can experience an > > overload of SIP messages. Therefore, the discussions in the draft apply > > to all servers that are involved in SIP message processing. > > > > SIP servers that also provide media handling services may need > > mechanisms to signal that they are out of trunk lines, DSP processors, > > storage capacity for voicmails, etc. These mechanisms will often be > > needed at times when the servers can still process SIP messages. These > > mechanisms are out of scope for the working group as discussed. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Volker > > > > > > > > > > On 8/29/2010 1:21 PM, Parthasarathi R (partr) wrote: > > > Sal/Volker, > > > The design document is designed for dedicated SIP signaling servers and > > > experiments are done based on the dedicated servers. The same > design may > > > not scale for SIP server with media handling. As per IETF-78 meeting, > > > SIP servers with media handling > > > (draft-partha-soc-overload-resource-availability-00, > > > draft-jones-sip-overload-sce-00) is outside the scope of this working > > > group. I think that it is better to indicate the scope of this overload > > > design is for "dedicated SIP servers" only and does not include media > > > servers with SIP. Please let me know your opinion on the same. > > > Thanks > > > Partha > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *From:* sip-overload-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Salvatore Loreto > > > *Sent:* Mon 8/23/2010 4:54 AM > > > *To:* sip-overload@ietf.org > > > *Cc:* Volker Hilt > > > *Subject:* [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-soc-overload-design > > > > > > [as chair] > > > > > > the draft has been update to address all the concerns/suggestions that > > > have been raised during > > > the F2F meeting in Maastricht: > > > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-soc-overload-design-01 > > > > > > > > > the chairs believe the document has no remaining open issues, and is > > > ready for WG last call evaluation. > > > > > > Today we are starting a two-weeks working group last call. > > > This call end on September 5th. > > > > > > comments and especially full and deep reviews of the draft are really > > > appreciate. > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > Sal > > > > > > -- > > > Salvatore Loreto > > > www.sloreto.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sip-overload mailing list > > > sip-overload@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-overload > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sip-overload mailing list > sip-overload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-overload > >
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Parthasarathi R (partr)
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Janet P Gunn
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Parthasarathi R (partr)
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Janet P Gunn
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Volker Hilt
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Volker Hilt
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Parthasarathi R (partr)
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… RahulSrivastava 71616
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Paul E. Jones
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Janet P Gunn
- Re: [MEDIACTRL] [sip-overload] WGLC: draft-ietf-s… Parthasarathi R (partr)