Re: [middisc] middisc specification update

"Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)" <ananth@cisco.com> Mon, 05 March 2012 19:44 UTC

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Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 11:44:25 -0800
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From: "Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)" <ananth@cisco.com>
To: "Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]" <wesley.m.eddy@nasa.gov>, David Harrington <ietfdbh@comcast.net>, Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>, middisc@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [middisc] middisc specification update
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Wes,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
> [mailto:wesley.m.eddy@nasa.gov]
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 11:19 AM
> To: Anantha Ramaiah (ananth); David Harrington; Wesley Eddy;
> middisc@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [middisc] middisc specification update
> 
> Since we want vendors to move off of other codepoints and onto
> whatever one may be allocated for this, I think Informational
> may not be quite right.

Ok.

> 
> Experimental could capture this well.  We want vendors to
> implement it and try it out.  The "experiment" is really to
> see if people will use this or not, and whether it succeeds in
> relieving some of the chaos of unallocated options in use.  I

Right, from vendors pov, experimental may sound fine. But from IETF
standards pov, this sort of an effort is aimed at reducing unauthorized
TCP option poaching and if such a draft exists it would both act as a
recommendation and for vendors to not use unauthorized options. In such
cases would experimental convey the "strong" message. May be some text
needs to be added to the draft echoing what you alluded above...

> think this would also require making sure there's clear
> discussion in the document of why the existing experimental
> codepoints aren't felt to be sufficient for this (especially
> since one has already been successfully used by one vendor!).

- in some cases existing code points would work, provided they are not
used by other purposes and not allocated by IANA for other purposes.
- in some cases where experimental TCP option code points are used
(Bluecoat?) they would collide with other experimental TCP option code
points.

So, in any case having a single TCP option code point eliminates these
surprises and also would be considered as a step forward for even going
down the road of interoperability among various vendors (wishful
thinking but always start with a better hope...)

I am not sure these things are spelled out clearly in the draft, but the
message is spread across and may be if there is a need for making it
more clear, please let us know.

Also if the status is experimental, I am assuming that we would still
get a regular TCP option code point and not the TCP experimental option
code point. I am assuming when you said experiment above it is more on
the lines of multiple vendors dis-continuing and using the standard TCP
option number that is allocated for this purpose.

Thanks,
-Anantha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Anantha Ramaiah (ananth) [mailto:ananth@cisco.com]
> >Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 1:57 PM
> >To: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]; David
Harrington;
> >Wesley Eddy; middisc@ietf.org
> >Subject: RE: [middisc] middisc specification update
> >
> >Wes,
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
> >> [mailto:wesley.m.eddy@nasa.gov]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:42 AM
> >> To: Anantha Ramaiah (ananth); David Harrington; Wesley Eddy;
> >> middisc@ietf.org
> >> Subject: RE: [middisc] middisc specification update
> >>
> >> Thanks for posting the draft.
> >>
> >> The intention is to handle this as an AD-sponsored document,
> >> not via an IETF working group.
> >>
> >> No presentation is needed.
> >>
> >> When all of the authors have agreed on it and consider it to
> >
> >From my point of view, I am done. Other stakeholders also have
> reviewed
> >this document and they seem ok with it (as far as I can tell).  They
> can
> >comment in any case.
> >
> >> be done, I will ask for a shepherd to do a writeup on it, and
> >> I will do an AD review.  If it's acceptable, I'll send it
> >> to IETF Last Call and through the rest of the IESG at that point.
> >
> >Great.
> >
> >>
> >> At that point, I also think it will be good to notify TSVAREA
> >> of it so that people have the opportunity to check it out during
> >> the IETF LC.
> >
> >Sure, that makes sense.
> >
> >One process question though, what would be the "intended status" of
> this
> >document?. If it was IETF WG doc, it would have been a standards
> >track... since it is taking the AD sponsored route, I am assuming it
> >needs to be informational.. not sure. Short question is : "is it ok
to
> >have a TCP option allocation request draft to be categorized as a
> >non-standards track?"
> >
> >Thanks,
> >-Anantha
> >>
> >> --
> >> Wes Eddy
> >> MTI Systems
> >>
> >>
> >> >-----Original Message-----
> >> >From: middisc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:middisc-bounces@ietf.org]
On
> >> >Behalf Of Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
> >> >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 7:43 PM
> >> >To: David Harrington; Wesley Eddy; middisc@ietf.org
> >> >Subject: Re: [middisc] middisc specification update
> >> >
> >> >Hi Wes/David,
> >> >
> >> >I just posted a draft (draft-ananth-middisc-tcpopt-00.txt) which
is
> a
> >> >result of all the discussions we have had among the stakeholders.
> >What
> >> >are the next steps?  Is any presentation needed? I assume this is
> >> >treated as an individual submission and not targeted to any WG and
> >> >directly IESG would review it (Based on what you hinted last time,
> >> Wes)
> >> >
> >> >Sorry it took time, but better late than never I guess. Thanks to
> all
> >> >for their discussions, review and feedback.
> >> >Thanks,
> >> >Anantha
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: middisc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:middisc-bounces@ietf.org]
> On
> >> >> Behalf Of Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:30 PM
> >> >> To: David Harrington; Wesley Eddy; middisc@ietf.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: [middisc] middisc specification update
> >> >>
> >> >> I hope to get something out (based on the discussions so far)
> >before
> >> >> the
> >> >> IETF deadlines. I'll start looking into this very soon.  I
assume
> >we
> >> >> are
> >> >> talking about the -00- cutoff deadline here and the IETF page
> says
> >> it
> >> >> is
> >> >> March 5th.
> >> >> -Anantha
> >> >>
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: middisc-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:middisc-
> bounces@ietf.org]
> >> On
> >> >> > Behalf Of David Harrington
> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 12:16 PM
> >> >> > To: 'Wesley Eddy'; middisc@ietf.org
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [middisc] middisc specification update
> >> >> >
> >> >> > three months later and a new deadline is approaching.
> >> >> > Any chance of seeing progress on a draft?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > David Harrington
> >> >> > Director, IETF Transport Area
> >> >> > ietfdbh@comcast.net (preferred for ietf)
> >> >> > dbharrington@huaweisymantec.com
> >> >> > +1 603 828 1401 (cell)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > > From: middisc-bounces@ietf.org
> >> >> > > [mailto:middisc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Wesley Eddy
> >> >> > > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 5:53 PM
> >> >> > > To: middisc@ietf.org
> >> >> > > Subject: [middisc] middisc specification update
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Hi folks, this is a reminder that there are cut-off dates
> >> >> > approaching
> >> >> > > for draft submission prior to the next IETF meeting.  If I
> >> >> > understand
> >> >> > > correctly, Andrew has the pen and should be working on
either
> a
> >> >new
> >> >> > or
> >> >> > > updated document based on prior discussions.  If it's at all
> >> >> > possible
> >> >> > > to get that in before the relevant cut-off date, that would
> be
> >> >very
> >> >> > > encouraging.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Wes Eddy
> >> >> > > MTI Systems
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > middisc mailing list
> >> >> > > middisc@ietf.org
> >> >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/middisc
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > middisc mailing list
> >> >> > middisc@ietf.org
> >> >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/middisc
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> middisc mailing list
> >> >> middisc@ietf.org
> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/middisc
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