Re: [mif] DNS selection with HE-MIF

[Keith Moore <[e-mail]>]

On 02/03/2013 11:48 AM, Ted Lemon wrote:
> On Feb 3, 2013, at 11:37 AM, Keith Moore <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> And IMO, it's far beyond a reasonable scope for this, or any, WG that is limited to a single area.  And perhaps a traditional IETF WG isn't the right structure for tackling this kind of problem.
> This seems like a fairly nonsensical statement.   The IETF has areas, and working groups.   It is frequently the case that work being done in a working group affects more than one area.   The IETF has not burst into an explosion of pure energy as a result of the streams being crossed thus far.   I suspect we are safe in the future as well.
My view is that the Internet (with IETF's help) has been painting itself 
into increasingly smaller corners for at least 15 years now, maybe 
longer.   NATs, DNS hacks, interception proxies, various kinds of packet 
filters, all basically make the Internet less predictable for 
applications, and thus increase development, operation, and support 
costs for everybody.  Trying to work around them all just makes the 
Internet more complex without making it more functional.

The IETF needs to get out of the habit of treating every problem as 
something that can be solved by spinning up a narrowly-focused working 
group, that functions just like every other working group because 
"that's the way we do things".

I realize, of course, that MIF can't change IETF's habits.   But if 
you're looking for a sane way forward, it's essential to realize that 
IETF's habits are a huge part of the problem.  Otherwise you keep trying 
to use the same working habits to address problems that they 
fundamentally cannot address.

> If you have some concrete proposal to make, I think it would be worth hearing it, but if you are just going to take pot shots, there's not much the rest of us can do except to try to continue getting work done while ducking your occasional volley.

My proposal is to document the problems as best you can, and make 
concrete suggestions for areas in which the Internet architecture might 
be tweaked, but don't try to resolve the conflicts within MIF.   
Instead, ask IAB to look at the matter and provide IESG with advice as 
to how to proceed.

Keith