Re: [mile] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

"Takeshi Takahashi" <takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp> Tue, 19 November 2019 04:41 UTC

Return-Path: <takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp>
X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8876B12011F; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:41:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nict.go.jp
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BeT099zeZg6Q; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:41:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mo-csw.securemx.jp (mo-csw1115.securemx.jp [210.130.202.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5983C12006F; Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:41:13 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1;a=rsa-sha256;c=relaxed/simple;d=nict.go.jp;h=From:To:Cc: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding;i=takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp;s=20190225.smx;t= 1574138471; x=1575348071; bh=2hB4ggkYHxz4VXpk1T96bcj8SjS0MHle/0XR+MDUJYo=; b=lb2 2kmHWJIz3d/25FIIJN4FdMv1kEERvJ3GmNVNJfbML7hwqTESc65S47P5Et3PLZ4Yegp2jECuDZvNS EEhzkAK/Nx5bNwj/oF5h5D7pHB6pzGIGd6WzCVtaJ2dOA7o/b4JrYBWC2805k8ZdSkRKcXqGqmFhO Kt9jJcYfs/ZOhORgv7O1m19m9subWX5FCZgfQkrIV4F0XDyH/SqMnlkXvcyZYPEADKXGRF+kYrzqn PQYj+Rkd7xKAQyvxXh0QVqPAYu37puB//Gx8xA4gnHBST8r+4fi+ALK7mdFb+JAbVvUqxttfcyF5b +VDb9aDhe8pswyBVlREgq7qIomsBj6w==;
Received: by mo-csw.securemx.jp (mx-mo-csw1115) id xAJ4fBem025920; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:41:11 +0900
X-Iguazu-Qid: 2wHHCSzpfzRhbg4qbQ
X-Iguazu-QSIG: v=2; s=0; t=1574138471; q=2wHHCSzpfzRhbg4qbQ; m=4gHmGrg5Q5TeDTLAlL+sUAUQKSCG5iXgeppv1e3+rEs=
Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (ipv6.mail2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:1200::f]) by relay.securemx.jp (mx-mr1112) id xAJ4fAb6024826 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:41:10 +0900
Received: from LAPTOP9DLCDU5S (ssh1.nict.go.jp [133.243.3.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPSA id 766972E4BC; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:41:09 +0900 (JST)
From: "Takeshi Takahashi" <takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp>
To: "'Benjamin Kaduk'" <kaduk@mit.edu>, "'The IESG'" <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: <mile@ietf.org>, <mile-chairs@ietf.org>, <draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef@ietf.org>
References: <156763852105.22719.3719785399652487432.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>
In-Reply-To: <156763852105.22719.3719785399652487432.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2019 20:41:06 -0800
Message-ID: <053401d59e93$8fc12a80$af437f80$@nict.go.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Content-language: en-us
Thread-Index: AQC7CBSmAHZkVUnDX/W2zu8a2JesP6nHFmuQ
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mile/UgqETuBS3xfzuENUrtxkKhJJlKA>
Subject: Re: [mile] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" <mile.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mile>, <mailto:mile-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mile/>
List-Post: <mailto:mile@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mile-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile>, <mailto:mile-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:41:19 -0000

Hi Benjamin,

Thank you very much for your kind review, and I am sorry for not being able
to reply you earlier.
Though we have submitted the revised version some time ago, I was unable to
cope with your comments yet.
Let us reply to your points when I submit the next version.

Thank you, and best regards,
Take

PS: note that the latest version is available here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef/


-----Original Message-----
From: mile <mile-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Benjamin Kaduk via
Datatracker
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2019 4:09 PM
To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: mile@ietf.org; mile-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef@ietf.org
Subject: [mile] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef-10:
(with DISCUSS and COMMENT)

Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef-10: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email
addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mile-jsoniodef/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

We use a subset of the JSON "number" type to represent integers, which
inherits JSON's range limits on numbers.  My understanding is that such
limits are not present in IODEF XML (e.g., we do not specify a totalDigits
value), so this is a new limitation of the JSON format that needs to be
documented (and, technically, drops us out of full parity with the XML
form).

The JSON "examples" seem to be using a "//" notation for comments, that is
not valid JSON nor described by draft-zyp-json-schema, thus appearing to
make the examples malformed (absent some other disclaimer of the commenting
convention).

How does STRUCTUREDINFO relate to EXTENSION?  What makes one vs the other
appropriate for a given piece of information?  Since the former is only in
RFC 7203 and not 7970, we do not have an easy reference for their interplay,
given 7970's minimal discussion of the use of 7203.
(It sounds like STRUCTUREDINFO is for structures from other published
specifications and EXTENSION is for more local/custom things, but I'm not
entirely sure if that's exactly the intended split.)

Can the shepherd please report on what level of validation has occurred on
the CDDL syntax, the mappings between RFC 7970's content and this document's
content, and the consistency between the formal syntax and the body text
(e.g., listings of enum values, member fields of each type, etc.)?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

It's somewhat surprising to see CBOR used but with CBOR maps required to use
string form for representing map keys (i.e., no short integer key values are
defined).  Some of the strings that are map keys in the JSON objects are
fairly long; is this extra space not a concern for the overall CBOR encoded
document (e.g., due to containing a large quantity of binary data such that
encoding overhead is a small relative portion of the encoded document)?

I guess that since it seems to only be used in (non-normative) Appendix B,
[jsonschema] can remain as an informative reference, though it would be nice
to have a citation where it is actually used in the document, as opposed to
just in the Introduction.  Since it is an informative reference, the
following point is not Discuss-worthy: The current citation gives no
absolute locator, leaving me somewhat unclear about whether to consult
draft-zyp-json-schema or something on json-schema.org or some other source.
The contents of Appendix B suggest it is the second of those...

Section 1

   processing is JSON.  To facilitate the automation of incident
   response operations, IODEF documents should support JSON
   representation.

Is it documents or implementations that should support the JSON
representation?

Section 2.1

The string "STRUCTUREDINFO" does not appear in RFC 7203, so I think we need
some additional locator information to indicate what behavior we're
referring to.

Using CBOR major type 2 for HEXBIN implies that actual binary values are
recorded directly, i.e., without any "hex" encoding.  We should be clear
about this one way or the other, and I didn't really see anything in the
CDDL schema that called this out.

Section 2.2.2

It's not claer to mey why using a plain text string is allowed for
representing a ML_STRING, as on the face of it that could lose language
information.  Is the idea that this is supposed to inherit from some
higher-level element, or just to reflect an efficiency of encoding when
neither of the optional language/translation-id fields are present?
Regardless, we should be more clear about that, since neither here nor
Section 5 includes any discussion thereof.  I see that Section 3.2 does have
a brief statement about this being a change from RFC 7970, but I'd still
like to see a little more clarity on this point.

   Examples are shown below.

   "MLStringType": {
     "value": "free-form text",                              //STRING
     "lang": "en",                                             //ENUM
     "translation-id": "jp2en0023"                           //STRING
   }

That looks more like a schema than an example (especially with those
//-comments!).  Also, nit-level, but there's only one, so "examples"
plural does not apply.

Section 2.2.4

   SoftwareReference class is a reference to a particular version of
   software.  Examples are shown below.

"class" seems to be the prevailing RFC 7970 terminology but is not used much
in this document; we seem to use "type" instead.

   "SoftwareReference": {
     "value": "cpe:/a:google:chrome:59.0.3071.115",    //STRING
     "spec-name": "cpe",                                 //ENUM

RFC 7970 suggests that the value portion is interpreted solely within the
context defined by the "spec-name", so it's unclear to me if the initial
"cpe:" prefix in this example is representative.

Section 2.2.5

I'd suggest to add a sentence along the lines of "Note that the structure of
this information is not interpreted in the IODEF JSON, and the word
'structured' indicates that the data item has internal structure that is
intended to be processed outside of the IODEF framework.

   When embedding the raw data, base64 encoding defined in Section 4 of
   [RFC4648] SHOULD be used for encoding the data, as shown below.

Does this apply just to JSON or to CBOR as well?  I'm not sure if the CBOR
HEX encoding actually uses raw binary or not, which would be more compact
(and more recommendable?).

Section 3.1

[[I stopped verifying mappings at DetectionPattern]]

Section 3.2

   o  Attributes and elements of each class in XML IODEF document are
      both presented as JSON attributes in JSON IODEF document, and the
      order of their appearances is ignored.

Are there any practical consequences of this loss of information that we
should discuss?

   o  The elements of ML_STRING type in XML IODEF document are presented
      as either STRING type or ML_STRING type in JSON IODEF document.

Why?

Section 5

   SpecID = "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:mile:mmdef:1.2" /  "private"

This enum is managed by IANA; shouldn't we have some sort of signal in the
CDDL to indicate it is extensible?  (Applies to any enum maintained by
IANA.)

   PortlistType = text .regexp "\\d+(\\-\\d+)?(,\\d+(\\-\\d+)?)*"

\d matches by unicode properties; I think that we want just [0-9] here?

Section 6

I think we are making use of some fields whose content is controlled by
IANA, so we may wish to consider asking IANA to update the description of
the registry(ies) in question to include the JSON and CBOR usage.

Appendix B

Is it more useful to have a non-normative JSON schema in the document, or a
pointer to a tool that can generate one from the CDDL?
(Alternately, how was this one generated -- were there any manual
modifications needed from the output of some tool?)


_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile