Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Thu, 19 July 2018 23:11 UTC

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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 19:11:06 -0400
Message-ID: <CAL02cgTACOeP3es64pZnmpLnZhTQrN=c9A8G6MXducXvKv6B9g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Cc: Jon Millican <jmillican@fb.com>, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim@symbolic.software>, Suhas Nandakumar <suhasietf@gmail.com>, Raphael Robert <raphael@wire.com>, "=JeffH" <jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com>, mls@ietf.org, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
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Subject: Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
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I don't have strong feelings here.  I'm not wedded to MLS, but I don't want
to move from that to something lame :)  MLS has the benefit of getting some
"trustiness" from the resonance with TLS, and we already have the top
Google hits for "MLS protocol".  I'm not sure MSG is enough better to
motivate a change.

On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:51 PM Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org> wrote:

> +1
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jon Millican <jmillican@fb.com> wrote:
> >
> > This discussion came up again at the hackathon, and I think there was a
> fair bit of sympathy for the idea of at least changing the protocol name to
> MSG; for the reasons described in this thread.
> >
> > Personally I'd be keen to have something slightly more uniquely
> Googleable than MSG, but I don't think that MLS is any better in this
> regard.
> >
> > ´╗┐On 27/03/2018, 19:03, "MLS on behalf of jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com"
> <mls-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com> wrote:
> >
> >     +1
> >
> >     Quoting Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>et>:
> >     > On Sun 2018-03-25 21:33:42 +0200, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> >     >> I do not believe the name should be changed:
> >     >>
> >     >> 1. MLS is a protocol that is equally suited for pairwise messaging
> >     >> as it is for group messaging
> >     >> 2. The MLS name is elegant and mirrors TLS.
> >     >
> >     > "Mirroring TLS" is exactly what i'm afraid of.  This is a radically
> >     > different protocol, performing demonstrably different work at a
> >     > different position within the stack, with a different view on what
> >     > interoperability even means.
> >     >
> >     > Let's make it very clear that this *is not* TLS, and that it is
> not a
> >     > substitute for TLS.
> >     >
> >     > The protocol described in the documents is *not* equally-suited for
> >     > pairwise messaging -- it has a number of subtle features that are
> >     > included solely because it is intended to handle group messaging.
> As
> >     > other people have written upthread, the protocol this nascent WG
> aims to
> >     > describe will handle pairwise messaging as a special case of group
> >     > messaging.  It is not designed intentionally for pairwise
> messaging and
> >     > if it were, it would have a different design.
> >     >
> >     >           --dkg
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
> Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology [https://www.cdt.org
> ]
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