Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
Robert Moskowitz <rgm-sec@htt-consult.com> Fri, 20 July 2018 00:22 UTC
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To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Cc: Jon Millican <jmillican@fb.com>, Nadim Kobeissi <nadim@symbolic.software>, Suhas Nandakumar <suhasietf@gmail.com>, Raphael Robert <raphael@wire.com>, =JeffH <jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com>, mls@ietf.org, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
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From: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-sec@htt-consult.com>
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Subject: Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
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If I would make a change it would be to MLK or MLSK. This effort is (per the charter) about installing and managing Message Level **KEYING** Message Level Security includes how the messages are protected (securely enveloped) over the communication channel. That is out of scope of this effort. (see my SSE draft if you want a general session level secure envelope). And is it just message level or multicast message level (MMLK). :) Bob On 07/19/2018 07:11 PM, Richard Barnes wrote: > I don't have strong feelings here. I'm not wedded to MLS, but I don't > want to move from that to something lame :) MLS has the benefit of > getting some "trustiness" from the resonance with TLS, and we already > have the top Google hits for "MLS protocol". I'm not sure MSG is > enough better to motivate a change. > > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:51 PM Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org > <mailto:joe@cdt.org>> wrote: > > +1 > On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:43 PM Jon Millican <jmillican@fb.com > <mailto:jmillican@fb.com>> wrote: > > > > This discussion came up again at the hackathon, and I think > there was a fair bit of sympathy for the idea of at least changing > the protocol name to MSG; for the reasons described in this thread. > > > > Personally I'd be keen to have something slightly more uniquely > Googleable than MSG, but I don't think that MLS is any better in > this regard. > > > > On 27/03/2018, 19:03, "MLS on behalf of > jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com > <mailto:jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com>" <mls-bounces@ietf.org > <mailto:mls-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of > jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com > <mailto:jeff.hodges@kingsmountain.com>> wrote: > > > > +1 > > > > Quoting Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net > <mailto:dkg@fifthhorseman.net>>: > > > On Sun 2018-03-25 21:33:42 +0200, Nadim Kobeissi wrote: > > >> I do not believe the name should be changed: > > >> > > >> 1. MLS is a protocol that is equally suited for pairwise > messaging > > >> as it is for group messaging > > >> 2. The MLS name is elegant and mirrors TLS.. > > > > > > "Mirroring TLS" is exactly what i'm afraid of. This is a > radically > > > different protocol, performing demonstrably different work > at a > > > different position within the stack, with a different view > on what > > > interoperability even means. > > > > > > Let's make it very clear that this *is not* TLS, and that > it is not a > > > substitute for TLS. > > > > > > The protocol described in the documents is *not* > equally-suited for > > > pairwise messaging -- it has a number of subtle features > that are > > > included solely because it is intended to handle group > messaging. As > > > other people have written upthread, the protocol this > nascent WG aims to > > > describe will handle pairwise messaging as a special case > of group > > > messaging. It is not designed intentionally for pairwise > messaging and > > > if it were, it would have a different design. > > > > > > --dkg > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLS mailing list > > MLS@ietf.org <mailto:MLS@ietf.org> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_mls&d=DwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=M0CVEJydBVUX_bvEqMa84Q&m=rfhSuK8vpcpFLcVQ8OMeZLwppm8O9uVb1XZ27wXlf60&s=BQG3-r7qCBQlhrrPGVNVJj6heSZcsNivR8jfE1ZmqzY&e= > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLS mailing list > > MLS@ietf.org <mailto:MLS@ietf.org> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > > > > -- > Joseph Lorenzo Hall > Chief Technologist, Center for Democracy & Technology > [https://www.cdt.org] > 1401 K ST NW STE 200, Washington DC 20005-3497 > e: joe@cdt.org <mailto:joe@cdt.org>, p: 202..407.8825, pgp: > https://josephhall.org/gpg-key > Fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 > > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org <mailto:MLS@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > > > > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
- [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Shivan
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Jon Millican
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Katriel Cohn-Gordon
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Raphael Robert
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Suhas Nandakumar
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Nadim Kobeissi
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Dave Cridland
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Rich Persaud
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Richard Barnes
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Richard Barnes
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" jeff.hodges
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Jon Millican
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Richard Barnes
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group" Robert Moskowitz