Re: [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward
"Katriel Cohn-Gordon" <me@katriel.co.uk> Fri, 07 February 2020 13:52 UTC
Return-Path: <me@katriel.co.uk>
X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9BE120879
for <mls@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 05:52:24 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.701
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
header.d=katriel.co.uk header.b=bW9sw/pE;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ikhFUIXz
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id 10Yfc_7p6Db1 for <mls@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Fri, 7 Feb 2020 05:52:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com
[66.111.4.29])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 23DD5120859
for <mls@ietf.org>; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 05:52:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46])
by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 142B721903;
Fri, 7 Feb 2020 08:52:21 -0500 (EST)
Received: from imap35 ([10.202.2.85])
by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 07 Feb 2020 08:52:21 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=katriel.co.uk;
h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to
:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mesmtp; bh=fG
Ryk0aybwKGMjg++uEE/JmEF71tyHekiSTpJ7s1uco=; b=bW9sw/pEEFYlDBycwA
h8DUKpir5cQp7CyQ9awXAVQEcGl4SRqkeGF4PHfwegn3zkjr+oRUzgQjb/gX6A+3
hrKxIUI9w4Gx3ofNJ+va1qk7q6JBGgE5A+iFDiIIJhx7BY8IjjsrYWc8d/T6gNhS
Xi6WF8V/EyAReEA4A0OkJmjFs=
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type
:date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references
:subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender
:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=fGRyk0aybwKGMjg++uEE/JmEF71tyHekiSTpJ7s1u
co=; b=ikhFUIXzKXDX6fsEQYgVbUBW7Ivne6M/6rcOHNTFvrXkWCRYy6i4o7k2K
3XRWhuw/JGv2KJcuHAzl7dOgEKuRxZ/HRzYCXRI/cC0RA+CtrRrCaedK1zhtf8+k
d0+rr7aI/+nd79Q9BG0ph6VkDh2O1Q9KzDGTs5RQ6CKzAegNIAEMIade2fB9TogF
wA2/huoJ6JVFbWUmZqOJK8HYAPQFGvHxb/+IAuVtNC9mYsGR1CxGWISjopnVkdNK
THzXHt9Y/Pn8jE2/iKh9aT1leiTntua1fm5IAineBCrx+jzoLlWRkcTJqrm2lz18
4ZMlS+KbGL6qzZvwyM0bEpszpHF0Q==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:lGs9Xq2ZoJlc1FjTqsBIzs6emDqFkQ7hFp2avQwrIS9Pujfyt-xm8Q>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedugedrheehgdehjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf
curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu
uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc
fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtgfesthhqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfmrght
rhhivghlucevohhhnhdqifhorhguohhnfdcuoehmvgeskhgrthhrihgvlhdrtghordhukh
eqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivghtfhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecu
rfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmvgeskhgrthhrihgvlhdrtghordhukh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:lGs9Xifw2ewSUKpuaccnl-0uU4VbJMhm1us89pgsXrH2MtiQjh0Syw>
<xmx:lGs9XjExr_c6rJXk2AP7nH3Ff9apOE8hqfHZoUmTewGvNtDorSyWDg>
<xmx:lGs9Xr2KCFYy6GOxLj1OLh6gJZVGtzsMqikBDV6Xd-Dc6bVGyQ8XVQ>
<xmx:lWs9XniKwCNE_DBkmLeEqjKd-Zl0SoiqFbcagd1ABXX8fZIjMLQD7A>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501)
id 0C92F14C00F5; Fri, 7 Feb 2020 08:52:19 -0500 (EST)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-802-g7a41c81-fmstable-20200203v1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <5302114f-dd8d-46e9-a345-d5f8110dab28@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <BF65A8FF-7AE0-454B-A1C3-08558EDE97F9@sn3rd.com>
References: <BF65A8FF-7AE0-454B-A1C3-08558EDE97F9@sn3rd.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:51:59 +0000
From: "Katriel Cohn-Gordon" <me@katriel.co.uk>
To: "Sean Turner" <sean@sn3rd.com>,
"Messaging Layer Security WG" <mls@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mls/__vLhOBtgIiYOpejmT-AaV53JbA>
Subject: Re: [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward
X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Messaging Layer Security <mls.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mls>,
<mailto:mls-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mls/>
List-Post: <mailto:mls@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mls-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls>,
<mailto:mls-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2020 13:52:24 -0000
I support this effort: this is one of the places where the gap between analysis and implementation is quite large, because all reliable messaging systems have a form of state recovery. While we can't necessarily fix all the issues, writing them up with a goal of at least making sure people are aware of them seems like a very good idea to me. On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, at 4:08 PM, Sean Turner wrote: > Hi! > > tl;dr: confirming new individual draft that describes state recovery > (i.e., the need for ACKs/NACKs). > > During the F2F Interim in January, the WG discussed how to address > state recovery. One reason you might want ACKs/NACKS is if you sent a > Commit and then some data, and the Commit is lost. In this case, your > data didn’t get sent and the data needs to be resent. There are obvious > implications because messages shouldn’t just be re-sent to the group > after many months. After a lengthy discussion about this and other > synchronization issues, the consensus at the interim was that an > individual draft is needed to describe state recovery-related issues. > After this draft is published, the WG can review it and decide whether > it should be accepted as a workable starting point and potential WG > item or be merged into an existing draft. > > The chairs need to confirm the interim’s consensus on list, so please > let the WG know by 2359 UTC 20 February whether you disagree with the > way forward and why. > > FYI: Jon and Emad volunteered to write this draft. > > Cheers, > Nick and Sean > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls >
- [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward Sean Turner
- Re: [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward Katriel Cohn-Gordon
- Re: [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward Benjamin Beurdouche
- Re: [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward Raphael Robert
- Re: [MLS] confirming state recovery way forward Sean Turner