Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"

Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> Tue, 27 March 2018 21:17 UTC

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From: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 21:17:34 +0000
Message-ID: <CAL02cgTvaa-1HfJ8zezsQ7baV7Xh0Vrq4-etkB73bGv8YryDWQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
Cc: Nadim Kobeissi <nadim@symbolic.software>, Suhas Nandakumar <suhasietf@gmail.com>, mls@ietf.org, Raphael Robert <raphael@wire.com>
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Subject: Re: [MLS] MLS: the WG name should include "group"
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On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
wrote:

> On Sun 2018-03-25 21:33:42 +0200, Nadim Kobeissi wrote:
> > I do not believe the name should be changed:
> >
> > 1. MLS is a protocol that is equally suited for pairwise messaging as it
> is for group messaging
> > 2. The MLS name is elegant and mirrors TLS.
>
> "Mirroring TLS" is exactly what i'm afraid of.  This is a radically
> different protocol, performing demonstrably different work at a
> different position within the stack, with a different view on what
> interoperability even means.
>
> Let's make it very clear that this *is not* TLS, and that it is not a
> substitute for TLS.
>
> The protocol described in the documents is *not* equally-suited for
> pairwise messaging -- it has a number of subtle features that are
> included solely because it is intended to handle group messaging.  As
> other people have written upthread, the protocol this nascent WG aims to
> describe will handle pairwise messaging as a special case of group
> messaging.  It is not designed intentionally for pairwise messaging and
> if it were, it would have a different design.
>

I'm surprised by this claim.  Signal protocol is designed for 1-1
messaging, and with the current draft, a 2-party session is pretty much the
same as a Signal session.

ISTM the difference between MLS(n=2) and TLS is driven more by the desire
for asynchronicity than by the optimization for groups.  Which might lead
one to argue that "asynchronous" should be in the name, but the same
"because it's 2018" argument applies.

--Richard



>
>           --dkg
>
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