Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4774131025 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:19:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SorCdWsT66ar for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39872131105 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id h99so3243476wrh.12 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:19:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MycMGMiwnUAcUIzjVIwM89fHsY2BKu3vGawEglwY9Jo=; b=Mw68JB5K+7hdl4oaF1/FdBuwKtRdanBIsb4+ulQ7Df+MpgQV9a7u3STRAygm99jrQO nTyfSlmETDz17QNJa3XCGUKPsakc8pzG0JABiMsQr9jte7y7DZqRKUg+9uUKiJp0S7Tf 7kohgsnPlsOwQNGkhaxEnCfmSpQT3mvG5CXwlqVuW+hVLQ8IH7NogIhu/C6M6sGC8ZKM wDbV30xt6osHjtZmH3P82vyZ/iG0/41EjLFg6P/dywBFtzPYRxL6z7kOAUukUnM8yWoP TSQxhFptpQ3g9BOeJAJhhaQtf8yIkULgLv1LC3FOPF74efNqAWag7jYJ9XzqfbxHeZn/ E/Fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MycMGMiwnUAcUIzjVIwM89fHsY2BKu3vGawEglwY9Jo=; b=RpQ5MtxAVFF0A+Qkdq8VhZx3auYY35yZmsw2B15UXlwFI1/IyhoNXyNqPfi+xTY5vg okmz4hfUiDn+e4u7d2OBwkbNDKS5UqgrxygT2+s18kmTlLsIZhMNODoJGgb+HK/a2P38 0wUFiG7YG6M/VVeWBmcEif/bpLUN6t3gAM37v1A7y1T5XvF7BvK/4GnycZr/oTP5Hn8S Oe/94eSnYu9KXmbwECNKxgJ30KMRy59zaj2r6NqjRFL20pvcR9VNXR7qYPtwYae0m5We MsjfCcGBdSxXoF9PnwwRAkLWfNLBgWAd6Izbg2jE7jeVK33joc3+YHjSCFcadD0Uc/Ga aTkA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVZTq8SjhzGAsBb0me+739O8V3trfvotv5Jon76nCmz/f4uq/oL g4P6vyT5jCLR/BXVAI3pPzCYNP7aDAAQPwNpzK27 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwhsjqPvqFGuMT7aivUoe59rS576rS/rkHVQDvS+OG8Sge+ttkBN1NZYt5+ZIDwnc7v6cHr9HKIwskEK4/wjQo= X-Received: by 2002:adf:b591:: with SMTP id c17mr30564465wre.195.1552504749355; Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:19:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155231947405.23094.13317482052323839515@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Emad Omara Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:18:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ted Hardie Cc: Sean Turner , mls@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000196a430583feae1f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-omara-mls-federation-00.txt X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2019 19:19:21 -0000 --000000000000196a430583feae1f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ted, Actually the intent was to support both scenarios and what is needed from MLS to support them, which I think will be the same for both cases (ignoring how different server entities communicate as mentioned in the draft). I agree the text needs more clarification, will work on that! Emad On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ted Hardie wrote: > Howdy, > > I found one of the use cases a bit confusing. The text says: > > > 3.2. Different client applications > > Different client applications operated by the same server can use MLS > to exchange E2EE handshake and application messages. For example > different browsers can implement the MLS protocol, and web developers > write web applications that use the MLS implementation in the browser > to encrypt and decrypt the messages. This will require a new > standard Web API to allow the client applications to set the address > of the delivery service in the browser. A more concrete example is > using MLS in the browser to exchange SRTP keys for multi-party > conference call. > > It wasn't clear to me whether the intent was to cover single entities > who have multiple client applications (e.g. a phone and browser sharing > state on an exchange for a single user) or to cover the case where > different client applications wanted to exchange messages for different > users (the multi-party conference call among users on phones and > different browsers). Given the overall topic, I assume that the first > of these is covered here and that the second is more basic to MLS, but > it might be useful to revise the text here to clarify. > > regards, > > Ted Hardie > > > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 11:56 AM Sean Turner wrote: > >> At the interim in January, the WG discussed the possibility of adopting >> work to address federations. Part of that process is to consider and >> individual draft first and then do a WG call for adoption. Emad promise= d >> to get a draft in before the deadline and he and Raphael met the deadlin= e. >> They did their bit so now it is time for the WG to discuss the draft. W= e >> have tentatively allocated some time on the agenda for this draft on the >> assumption that it will generate some discussion based on the amount of >> interest at the interim. >> >> Note that this =E2=80=9Cfederation=E2=80=9D we are talking about here is= only about >> federating some/all of the key establishment, authentication, and >> confidentiality services because this would be in scope of the WG. >> >> spt >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org >> *Subject: **I-D Action: draft-omara-mls-federation-00.txt* >> *Date: *March 11, 2019 at 11:51:14 EDT >> *To: * >> *Reply-To: *internet-drafts@ietf.org >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> >> Title : The Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Federation >> Authors : Emad Omara >> Raphael Robert >> Filename : draft-omara-mls-federation-00.txt >> Pages : 8 >> Date : 2019-03-11 >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes how the Messaging Layer Security (MLS) can be >> used in a federated environment where different MLS implementations >> can interoperate by defining the message format for user key >> retrieval. The document also describes some use cases where >> federation could be useful. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-omara-mls-federation/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> I-D-Announce mailing list >> I-D-Announce@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce >> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MLS mailing list >> MLS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls >> > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > --000000000000196a430583feae1f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ted,

Actually the intent was to supp= ort both scenarios and what is needed from MLS to support them, which I thi= nk will be the same for both cases (ignoring how different server entities = communicate as mentioned in the draft).

=C2=A0I ag= ree the text needs more clarification, will work on that!

Emad

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 12:09 PM Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Howd= y,

I found one of the use cases a bit confusing.= =C2=A0 The text says:


3.2.  Different client applic=
ations

   Different client applications operated by the same server can use MLS
   to exchange E2EE handshake and application messages.  For example
   different browsers can implement the MLS protocol, and web developers
   write web applications that use the MLS implementation in the browser
   to encrypt and decrypt the messages.  This will require a new
   standard Web API to allow the client applications to set the address
   of the delivery service in the browser.  A more concrete example is
   using MLS in the browser to exchange SRTP keys for multi-party
   conference call.

It wasn't clear to me whether the intent was to cover single ent=
ities=20
who have multiple client applications (e.g. a phone and browser sharing=20
state on an exchange for a single user) or to cover the case where=20
different client applications wanted to exchange messages for different=20
users (the multi-party conference call among users on phones and=20
different browsers).=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Given the overall topic, I assume th=
at the first=20
of these is covered here and that the second is more basic to MLS, but=20
it might be useful to revise the text here to clarify.
regards,
= 
Ted Hardi=
e


On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 11:56 AM Sea= n Turner <sean@sn3rd= .com> wrote:
At the interim in January, the WG discussed the possibility of ado= pting work to address federations.=C2=A0 Part of that process is to conside= r and individual draft first and then do a WG call for adoption.=C2=A0 Emad= promised to get a draft in before the deadline and he and Raphael met the = deadline.=C2=A0 They did their bit so now it is time for the WG to discuss = the draft.=C2=A0 We have tentatively allocated some time on the agenda for = this draft on the assumption that it will generate some discussion based on= the amount of interest at the interim.

Note that this = =E2=80=9Cfederation=E2=80=9D we are talking about here is only about federa= ting some/all of the=C2=A0key establishment,=C2=A0authentication, and confi= dentiality services because this would be in scope of the WG.

<= /div>
spt

Begin forwarded me= ssage:



A New Internet-Draft is availab= le from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Title =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: The Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Federation
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Authors =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Emad Omara
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Raphael Robert
Filename =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0: draft-omara-mls-federation-00.txt
Pages =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 8
= Date =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 20= 19-03-11

Abstract:
=C2=A0=C2=A0This document describes how the M= essaging Layer Security (MLS) can be
=C2=A0=C2=A0used in a federated en= vironment where different MLS implementations
=C2=A0=C2=A0can interoper= ate by defining the message format for user key
=C2=A0=C2=A0retrieval.= =C2=A0 The document also describes some use cases where
=C2=A0=C2=A0fed= eration could be useful.


The IETF datatracker status page for th= is draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-omar= a-mls-federation/

There are also htmlized versions available at:=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00<= /a>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-o= mara-mls-federation-00


Please note that it may take a couple= of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and d= iff are available at to= ols.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FT= P at:
= ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

____________________________= ___________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
http= s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft direct= ories: http:/= /www.ietf.org/shadow.html
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt<= /a>

_______________= ________________________________
MLS mailing list
MLS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
_______________________________________________
MLS mailing list
MLS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
--000000000000196a430583feae1f--