Re: [mmox] Loosely Coupled Virtual Worlds

[Charles Krinke <[e-mail]>]

We have had this discussion on and off for a couple of years now on OpenSim
regarding where objects should be stored.

In general, it is argued that objects unique to an avatar are best stored in
an avatar-unique manner, be that a home grid, a home region, or a USB thumb
drive.

But, also in general, it is argued that objects that need to be interacted
with by *other* then the owner, need to be stored in a manner that allows
this interaction.

>From the OpenSim viewpoint, we have headed down a hybrid approach for grid
objects or assets. Some assets are stored on the local region hard disk,
some are stored on a gridserver complex if this region is part of a grid.

>From the interop viewpoint, I would think each virtual world, or
instantiation of a software that supports a virtual world would need to deal
with this with their own vision in mind. I would not presume to tell
SecondLife how they should or should not store objects and assets. For the
purpose of this group, I would tend to focus on how we may interact with
other existing virtual worlds implementations such as chat, teleport,
presence and devolve the asset storage for the most part back to the
architecture making up the virtual world.

Charles Krinke
OpenSim Core Developer
OSGrid Director

2009/3/27 Mystical Demina <[e-mail]>

>  I just wanted to add I can see the agent being on the same computer that
> is running the rendering which would typically being a client which would
> know how to pass any needed references to one ore more locations inventory
> could be utilized from, including my local disk.  Although not sure why the
> simulator would need access to inventory, seems this agent will handle any
> request for a particular object and provide it to the simulator which would
> allow inventory to come from any other computer in the world.
>
>
>
> Or this agent may be a proxy for my client who would run on a server I am
> logged into and handle these negotiations.
>
>
>
> It is my opinion we need to move past the idea of the inventory being
> something owned by a grid and more to a source of an objects that I have
> access to that can be used into a simulator.  This object(s) could be copied
> and cached into the simulator or it could be a proxy, and to some degree at
> least some if it probably need to be, it can be a shell of the object that
> is actually instantiated somewhere else and provided once or updated in a
> steam of information that could be multiple times a second or long term like
> daily or more; or event driven.
>
>
>
> Some thoughts.
>
>
>
> Kevin Tweedy
>
> SL: Mystical Demina
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] *On Behalf Of
> *Charles Krinke
> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2009 10:02 AM
> *To:* Hurliman, John
>
> *Cc:* MMOX-IETF
> *Subject:* Re: [mmox] Loosely Coupled Virtual Worlds
>
>
>
> I think what is happening here is we have half of a solution that needs a
> bit more symmetry.
>
> A citizen from a SecondLife grid can certainly connect today to an OpenSim
> grid or standalone using the Agent Domain notion. But, a citizen from an
> OpenSim grid such as OSGrid cannot cannot to a SecondLife grid in a
> symmetrical fashion as there is no Agent Domain notion in OpenSim.
>
> I look at this and think more along the lines of passports and border
> crossings between virtual countries.
>
> Using this metaphor, there needs to be a handoff of an avatar from one grid
> to another grid for simulation. Now, I can see some notions of a circuit
> connected back to ones home grid for certain authentication and object
> inventory issues, but in general this is a border crossing between
> countries.
>
> When I mean symmetry, I also mean that a citizen of a SecondLife grid may
> enter a region on OSGrid, but similarly, I would expect a citizen of OSGrid
> to be able to enter a SecondLife grid. Else this interoperability is one way
> and not advantageous to both parties.
>
> Charles Krinke
> OpenSim Core Developer
> OSGrid Director
>
>  On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Hurliman, John <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of
> >Morgaine
> >Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:11 AM
> >To: Jason Giglio
> >Cc: MMOX-IETF
> >Subject: Re: [mmox] Loosely Coupled Virtual Worlds
> >
> >On 2009/3/25, Jason Giglio <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >       http://www.meerkatviewer.org/whitepaper.pdf
> >       http://www.meerkatviewer.org/whitepaper.odt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >The above document seems remarkably insightful on various fronts:
> >
>
> ...
> >
> >*      Indirectly, it highlights that the Agent Domain model does not
>
> >have a solution to the problem of accessing worlds with which there is
> >no trust agreement.  People will want to enter arbitrary worlds, and
> >therefore that restriction is inadequate.
> >*      There will be millions of worlds in an Internet-scale metaverse,
> >which makes the concept of interop through trust agreements far too
> >narrow.  Trust loses its meaning entirely when scaled to millions,
> >becoming mere paperwork or "security theater".
>
> This is, in my opinion, the fundamental flaw in OGP. Explicit trust maps
> (whitelists) work great when IBM wants to define policy to connect to the
> Linden Lab grid, but has no meaning and no hope of scaling when you talk
> about defining trust for millions of simulation grids and millions (or at
> least thousands) of identity providers. This is the primary reason that
> Intel and many members of the OpenSimulator/OpenMetaverse community have not
> considered OGP as a strong proposal for virtual world interoperability. If
> this understanding is not accurate, it would be helpful if an OGP author
> could step in and clear up the confusion.
>
> John
>
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>
>
> --
> Charles Krinke
> OpenSim Core Developer
> OSGrid Director
>
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>


-- 
Charles Krinke
OpenSim Core Developer
OSGrid Director