Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario
Morgaine <morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com> Wed, 18 March 2009 14:10 UTC
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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:11:30 +0000
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From: Morgaine <morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com>
To: Mark Lentczner <markl@lindenlab.com>
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Cc: MMOX-IETF <mmox@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario
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On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Lentczner <markl@lindenlab.com>wrote: > > Fundamentally - I think the scenario that Morgaine started this thread with > points to an architecture that what many people want and satisfies many use > cases. > > > That's good to hear from you, Mark. The 3-world scenario<http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmox/current/msg01114.html>is deliberately simple, yet it captures the central goal of interop: to provide *users* with an interactive mashup composited out of elements taken from multiple, diverse worlds. Everything else is a means to that end. In these few days remaining before the BoF and perhaps for a short while after that, it is a key element of our work to define the problem space (along with a few tentative solutions), since it is on that basis that a WG will be approved or denied. I believe that the given scenario defines the core of the *problem space*with good coverage, although of course not total coverage. Very importantly, it says NOTHING about the *solution space*: anyone who is strongly averse to adding MMOX protocol handling to their clients should note that the scenario does NOT say that A1's client has connected to B nor to C during the avatar's virtual travels to those worlds. That would be a solution-space detail. I hope that this can be a common denominator between us all. Morgaine. On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Mark Lentczner <markl@lindenlab.com>wrote: > Do you seriously think it's a good idea to specify all the minutiae of how >> a server and client interact, as a standard protocol? >> > Yes. > Telnet, FTP, IMAP & 2822, HTTP & HTML, XMPP, to name a few past examples. > > Including how GUI is tied to local and remote capabilities, how a scene >> graph is constructed and animated, how version patching is done, how user >> control is forwarded, etc? >> > Yes insofar as the semantics of the capabilities are defined, but not the > precise UI. HTML & CSS specify quite a bit about the semantics of the > presentation - and often dictate quite precise presentation. But browsers > are pretty free to create GUI as they see fit. > No to version patching. Updating the client is beyond the scope of the > protocol. > > And all that work, just to be able to show up in world B instead of world >> A? >> > Yes. > > What about objects you want to use cross worlds; are you saying you also >> want to specify the exact runtime requirements for objects (scripting >> language, physics interface, etc)? >> > Yes. > 2822 & MIME, HTML & CSS & JavaScript, ODF to name a few past examples. > > I believe that the real enabler of interop is to be able to merge the >> simulations of different worlds >> > Ah - here we disagree. I think this is a non-starter for the vast majority > of users and use cases. Whereas I think users really care about using a > single client, and a single virtual identity to roam the wide-open spaces of > the metaverse. > > So, if no users want to pay money for the convenience of not having to >> install two separate clients, exactly why would any profit-seeking company >> implement a second protocol in their client? >> > Is it just a convenience that you don't have to download and run a > different browser-like client applications for your bank, for Netflix, for > Wikipedia, and for Google? I am old-enough to remember an Internet where > each of those would have been independent protocols, with independent > clients. While I as a user consider the single, universal web browser of > great value - and would pay for it (I own a retail copy of Netscape > Navigator!) - every other segment of the computer industry benefits so > greatly by this architecture, that the browser has become free. > > Fundamentally - I think the scenario that Morgaine started this thread with > points to an architecture that what many people want and satisfies many use > cases. > > - Mark > > Mark Lentczner > Sr. Systems Architect > Technology Integration > Linden Lab > > markl@lindenlab.com > > Zero Linden > zero.linden@secondlife.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mmox mailing list > mmox@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox >
- [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Rob Lanphier
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Ann Otoole
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Ann Otoole
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Mystical Demina
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Bill Humphries
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario David W Levine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Charles Krinke
- [mmox] My reading of draft-lentczner-ogp-base-00 Latha Serevi
- Re: [mmox] My reading of draft-lentczner-ogp-base… Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity)
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario eh2th-mmox
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Mystical Demina
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Ann Otoole
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario eh2th-mmox
- [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the Gener… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Mystical Demina
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Kajikawa Jeremy
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Kajikawa Jeremy
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Frisby, Adam
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Mark Lentczner
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Jon Watte
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Morgaine
- Re: [mmox] 3-world OGP interop scenario Charles Krinke
- Re: [mmox] One more time: The LESS model vs the G… Christian Scholz