Re: [mmox] Global Object Identification

Jon Watte <jwatte@gmail.com> Sun, 05 July 2009 21:41 UTC

Return-Path: <jwatte@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: mmox@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmox@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204AE3A6ACA for <mmox@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.684
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.684 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U8cDW0gL6R+8 for <mmox@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pz0-f198.google.com (mail-pz0-f198.google.com [209.85.222.198]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BEE23A6803 for <mmox@ietf.org>; Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by pzk36 with SMTP id 36so3809919pzk.29 for <mmox@ietf.org>; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:41:18 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kPzOCMG0V9kZl1VkgAc8WMa/px/xZA8AGvHGptHSNwY=; b=JwbqsJ1byp2tFa0ngLCyGrjRytX48eEvL+OpfwBwPkLKyRV+8ylu0fUfJYRNPBC9zz 0JLUXrvbB8+3c0xRl28/iiK/aA47VzsBpkb/HHCiETvANjf9UOiNS/0FubSJLNqSbZ9x Gpgpk+Jkh4i7YnAuu8Lhjc+gz67a4PP1H6hcs=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=AZliYpQCCFTWHSn3XG9dtuSoIjEU/s2DS1vPICgWZh19BseLd5/thZyg6gPrlQ8ehC o9NTL+Txc6S1wqNQPYn7vW1DatoOF7gGccWiDGxI/ppMY5sWwZw0cggEyIBSD326ZaZS F26jExpko4ibFClXzJ2suvavIe/2r0YRKDVic=
Received: by 10.114.92.20 with SMTP id p20mr6224390wab.172.1246830077785; Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:41:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?192.168.1.101? (svn.mindcontrol.org [69.17.45.136]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n40sm10078311wag.65.2009.07.05.14.41.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <4A511DF9.9000508@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:41:13 -0700
From: Jon Watte <jwatte@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: mike.dickson@hp.com
References: <ad15b9430906190018g6e585f0ei8fc83c073056a7bd@mail.gmail.com> <3a880e2c0906191408m66e87830w6094987335fb6c16@mail.gmail.com> <1245446801.9567.12.camel@mdickson-laptop> <4A3E1A16.2070509@dcrocker.net> <1245601755.7174.3.camel@mdickson-laptop> <c7bcbd620906210956l1a05fb81xb3dea005c902a564@mail.gmail.com> <ad15b9430907040531j18caf370y2a9b400ace86394a@mail.gmail.com> <1246813317.4532.48.camel@mdickson-laptop> <4A50E7C9.1090208@bbiw.net> <1246820675.4532.55.camel@mdickson-laptop>
In-Reply-To: <1246820675.4532.55.camel@mdickson-laptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: "mmox@ietf.org" <mmox@ietf.org>, Dave CROCKER <dcrocker@bbiw.net>
Subject: Re: [mmox] Global Object Identification
X-BeenThere: mmox@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Massively Multi-participant Online Games and Applications <mmox.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox>, <mailto:mmox-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmox>
List-Post: <mailto:mmox@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmox-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox>, <mailto:mmox-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:41:02 -0000

Mike Dickson wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-07-05 at 17:50 +0000, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>   
>> Mike Dickson wrote:
>>     
>>> I like the handle system because its been around for a while, proven to
>>> scale reasonably well, etc.  
>>>       
>> So, the metric I use for scaling, when talking about Internet standards, is many 
>> millions of independent users and at least many thousands of independent 
>> administrations, all participating in the same system.
>>     
>
> I can't think of alot of "systems" that would satisfy your definition
> (other than perhaps the current web infrastructure w/DNS).  That being
> said the factsheet from the handle site has some details. 
>
> http://www.handle.net/factsheet.html
>   

If I want my web servers to scale, I can easily buy all kinds of 
acceleration hardware -- edge-mounted CDNs, load balancers, caching 
proxies, 1000-core Java accelerators, you name it!
If I want my DNS to scale, there are several solutions I can buy to 
scale it to whatever load I need.
I can't find any product that will allow me to accelerate handle 
resolution. This, to me, is evidence that resolving URLs is at least an 
order of magnitude better supported than handles (and, in most 
likelihood, several orders of magnitude).

I believe that, if you need a unique ID for something, then using 
DNS+URL is the best way. You can legislate what you get at the end of 
that URL -- an XRD document, for example. Thus, code to deal with an 
entity becomes trivial, because every software stack in existence 
(including cell phones, Nintendo DS, and friends) all can fetch a URL 
and parse XML.

Meanwhile, resolving a handle to an actual object or service means that 
you first have to resolve the handle, and then turn that around and 
resolve a URL anyway.

The main reason for Handles to exist is that a document may "move." 
However, that "move" only matters if the domain of that object can't 
move with you. With modern DNS, that's basically a non-problem. Either 
put up a sub-domain for your coroprate, organization or vanity domain, 
or outsource it to someone who will stay around. Handle providers must 
also stay around, and given that the business is much smaller than the 
DNS business, the longevity of a handle provider is rather less assured 
IMO...

Sincerely,

jw




-- 

  Revenge is the most pointless and damaging of human desires.