Re: [mmox] OGP scalability concerns

[Charles Krinke <[e-mail]>]

Yes, Infinity, I was merely using that as an example.

I have the greatest of respect for both you and JHurliman and hope that
"whatever" evolves is something both of you can support. I am trying to pick
my words very carefully as I dont want to paint you or JHurliman into any
corner.

But, in any case, as long as interop between virtual worlds is symmetrical,
then I can support the notions are they are evolving. Symmetrical in this
case meaning that there is *not* an overwhelming, global, metaversal server
somewhere that *everyone* needs an account on in order to accomplish
interop.

Charles Krinke
OpenSim Core Developer
OSGrid Director


On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity) <
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Charles... i _think_ we're in radical agreement. Some might read that first
> sentence as meaning, "you're not fully interoperable unless you can teleport
> from second life to wonderland to world of warcraft to every other virtual
> world in existence." But the second sentence seems to imply you're really
> just talking about "second life-like" systems. If you mean the former...
> ouch... that's going to be difficult (though i'm sure JW would disagree.) If
> the latter, then yes, you're right... we're not fully interoperable (in the
> OGP sense) until you can teleport from a linden controlled server to a
> OSgrid controlled? federated? server, and then turn around and go back the
> other way.
>
> On Apr 1, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Charles Krinke wrote:
>
> To me, interop implies a full handoff of an avatar from one virtual world
> to another.
>
> I can appreciate OGP offering one half of this in its current form in a
> teleport from a SecondLife type grid to an OpenSim type grid. But, we also
> need to consider how a citizen of an OpenSim grid can teleport to a
> SecondLife grid as well.
>
> In the case of OpenSim grids, we have a UserServer as opposed to an
> AgentDomain, but they offer a similar set of services.
>
> So, from the MMOX viewpoint, we could perhaps get there from here if we
> were to consider the fact that each side of this teleport needs to be
> treated in an equal and sovereign manner.
>
> To me, interop between grids is more of a "border crossing & customs"
> paradigm. That is, each grid may have its own border crossing rules for exit
> and its own customs rules for entry and each is sovereign in its own right.
> That is, there is no overwhelming AgentDomain that controls all teleports
> between all grids, but rather an AgentDomain is a paradigm for one
> particular grid, or in the SecondLife case, for a few SecondLife grids all
> under the control of one corporate personality.
>
> Charles Krinke
> OpenSim Core Developer
> OSGrid Director
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Meadhbh Hamrick (Infinity) <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Apr 1, 2009, at 1:56 PM, Hurliman, John wrote:
>>
>>  A few days ago I posted an e-mail highlighting my concerns with the
>>> architecture of OGP. I'm not sure if there was an implicit agreement from
>>> the OGP authors or if the e-mail was lost in the flood. I'm reposting in a
>>> new thread because I want to make sure I have a proper understanding of the
>>> architecture.
>>>
>>>
>>>  *       Indirectly, it highlights that the Agent Domain model does not
>>>> have a solution to the problem of accessing worlds with which there is
>>>> no trust agreement.  People will want to enter arbitrary worlds, and
>>>> therefore that restriction is inadequate.
>>>>
>>>
>> i would guess the solution would be to have a promiscuous agent domain
>> that has a "i will trust all worlds" settings. i think this is a limitation
>> of the implementation, not the architecture.
>>
>>  *       There will be millions of worlds in an Internet-scale metaverse,
>>>> which makes the concept of interop through trust agreements far too
>>>> narrow.  Trust loses its meaning entirely when scaled to millions,
>>>> becoming mere paperwork or "security theater".
>>>>
>>>
>> +1. what's your suggestion?
>>
>>
>>
>>> This is, in my opinion, the fundamental flaw in OGP. Explicit trust maps
>>> (whitelists) work great when IBM wants to define policy to connect to the
>>> Linden Lab grid, but has no meaning and no hope of scaling when you talk
>>> about defining trust for millions of simulation grids and millions (or at
>>> least thousands) of identity providers. This is the primary reason that
>>> Intel and many members of the OpenSimulator/OpenMetaverse community have not
>>> considered OGP as a strong proposal for virtual world interoperability. If
>>> this understanding is not accurate, it would be helpful if an OGP author
>>> could step in and clear up the confusion.
>>>
>>> John
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mmox mailing list
>>> [e-mail]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mmox mailing list
>> [e-mail]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmox
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Charles Krinke
> OpenSim Core Developer
> OSGrid Director
>
>
>


-- 
Charles Krinke
OpenSim Core Developer
OSGrid Director