Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE

Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org> Fri, 12 October 2012 18:16 UTC

Return-Path: <emil@sip-communicator.org>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBDC621F87BD for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPqcQrGSCKEF for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com (mail-we0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AA421F87BA for <mmusic@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:16:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-we0-f172.google.com with SMTP id u46so2048831wey.31 for <mmusic@ietf.org>; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=rWR4MpcvoqU7Z4ct1KDx+R9C9etNskEpXkWIDgpJuYo=; b=Z+37lAPubYUGxTjnKKfp5e09H2VL8SxcRnNcWXkKjPsbjgOwW0ePXA6HPEPesyc6kp 3TCmPbmIX9uHwiGHlXzWtVtWi8smkF+k5b1hEztltoPJt0pvWJXeUtP1QNopIiNaPz5N 3spNPHsMoTjdbEEG3FSQs08hhvTe496+W3RA8D4aUclh9+BRU7jcEKKVk0eWi1uKqPDH PISp36IWLMPGHEY7/PO9G3f8YneThimWZYAlTF7Vap9rlReIhxAZVBcMSzImKLlDbvyT OnBj8N4oxlJFWSTPhe7hyOCkZB6kx4RLW5zFijR9xaoWZbRQbrxvMzIA3+YSdGWol4mH nHwA==
Received: by 10.180.87.42 with SMTP id u10mr7908689wiz.0.1350065805796; Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from camionet.local ([2a01:e35:2e2c:f600:5c2a:e2a8:a4af:298b]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w8sm4368904wif.4.2012.10.12.11.16.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 12 Oct 2012 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <50785E8A.7080903@jitsi.org>
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 20:16:42 +0200
From: Emil Ivov <emcho@jitsi.org>
Organization: Jitsi
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:15.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/15.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
References: <20121010141600.30314.22528.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>, <5075864F.3030700@jitsi.org> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BAFAA6E@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se>, <5075FB20.6070408@jitsi.org> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BAFAA74@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <5076B8E4.6050307@jitsi.org> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BE3F450@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <50773B73.6060508@jitsi.org> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BDCEF78@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se> <5077FE17.3010800@jitsi.org> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BDCF1D9@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se>, <50782585.9070204@jitsi.org> <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BAFAA87@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se>
In-Reply-To: <7F2072F1E0DE894DA4B517B93C6A0585340BAFAA87@ESESSCMS0356.eemea.ericsson.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkwKWLe5Ws3yMOtJw/VXx1nNEZoyH3hCsKOiNi066S2YEtGTn0/prU5IGj0P4iz7xrdM+qL
Cc: MMUSIC IETF WG <mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Trickle ICE
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmusic>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 18:16:47 -0000

Hey Christer,

(one minor comment)

On 12.10.12, 20:04, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>>> All in all, making assumptions on the receiving end is always a
>>>> risk. If the host sending the candidates knows that they are its
>>>> best/only candidates, then it could indicated so by sending the
>>>> end-of-candidates message we describe in the draft.
>>>
>>> In case Bob has a public IP address, why does Alice need to send an
>>> offer with the additional candidates in the first place? Why not
>>> simply start using them, and Bob will process them as peer reflexive
>>> candidates?
>>>
>>> (I can understand that signaling is needed in case per-candidate
>>> ufag/pwd values are used, but let's assume a case where the same
>>> values are used for all candidates.)
>>
>> My point was that Bobs IP address being public:
>>
>> * does not mean it is the best option: VPN, tunnelling, and multiple
>> interfaces can all generate public host IP addresses that are a lot less
>> preferable to server reflexive ones.
>> * does not even guarantee that it's reachable. Connectivity may be
>> administratively prohibited, routes can be down.
> 
> Alice CAN continue to gather candidates, in case there are better
> ones. My question was why she needs to signal them to Bob in a new
> offer, instead of simply start sending STUN checks associated with the
> candidates? Bob will then process them as peer reflexive candidates.

She can do that of course. And she should. That's what trickling is
about after all. But those checks may fail for the reasons above (second
bullet) or simply because Bob has a firewall with endpoint-dependent
filtering so it won't let Alice's packets come in unless Bob also starts
sending packets to her.

Does this make sense?

Emil

-- 
https://jitsi.org