Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: session-level attributes
Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Sun, 30 December 2012 00:36 UTC
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From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: session-level attributes
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On 12/29/12 6:03 PM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > I don¹t remember us reaching a consensus regarding the text proposed by > Brett. One thing certain is that we don't wanna break anything that > complies with 4566 but we should also make the text as clear as possible. > > I am OK with Brett's suggestion as I don't recall an attribute like what > Paul might have seen. But, even if such an attribute exists, the current > text would be incorrect, too (This would indicate a problem with that > particular attribute not 4566 or 4566bis). I found one: a=maxprate in RFC3890. Thanks, Paul > Brett's proposal does not make the text any worse. So, I am planning to > incorporate this change. > > Any objections? > > -acbegen > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> > Date: Monday, August 27, 2012 12:03 PM > To: "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: > session-level attributes > > >I've always thought this should be the way things work, for all > >attributes. But somewhere I came across an attribute (sorry, don't > >remember which one) where the attribute at session level means something > >different than the attribute at media level, and so can't be treated as > >a default for media level. (E.g. the session level is an aggregate limit > >for something, while the media level is a limit for a single m-line.) > > > >Am I just dreaming this? Or can someone identify specific attributes > >that behave this way? > > > >If there are existing attributes that behave this way, then we can't > >make a blanket statement like this. There will need to be an escape > >hatch. For example: > > > >"The connection ("c=") information in the > > session-level section applies to all the media of that session unless > > overridden by connection information > > in the media description. For instance, in the example > > below, TBD..." > > > >"The attribute ("a=") information in the > > session-level section applies to all the media of that session unless > > overridden by connection information or an attribute of the same name > > or choice in the media description, or the specification of that > > attribute calls for a different treatment. > > For instance, in the example > > below, each media behaves as if it were given a "recvonly" attribute. > > If the example had additionally contained a "sendrecv" media-level > > attribute for audio, only the video media would behave as if it were > > given a "recvonly" attribute." > > > >Even this could have some backward compatibility consequences. I think > >there are some attributes that are only defined for media level. This > >revision would mean that a session level value could override a default > >for media level. Implementations that aren't prepared for that might > >break. > > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > > >On 8/27/12 12:04 PM, Ali C. Begen (abegen) wrote: > >> Brett suggested the following change in the SDP draft. Any objections? > >> > >> -acbegen > >> > >> Current text: > >> > >> "The connection ("c=") and attribute ("a=") information in the > >> session-level section applies to all the media of that session unless > >> overridden by connection information or an attribute of the same name > >> in the media description. For instance, in the example below, each > >> media behaves as if it were given a "recvonly" attribute." > >> > >> Proposed text: > >> > >> "The connection ("c=") and attribute ("a=") information in the > >> session-level section applies to all the media of that session unless > >> overridden by connection information or an attribute of the same name > >> or choice in the media description. For instance, in the example > >> below, each media behaves as if it were given a "recvonly" attribute. > >> If the example had additionally contained a "sendrecv" media-level > >> attribute for audio, only the video media would behave as if it were > >> given a "recvonly" attribute." > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Brett Tate [mailto:brett@broadsoft.com] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 7:54 AM > >>> To: Ali C. Begen (abegen); mmusic@ietf.org > >>> Subject: RE: Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: session-level attributes > >>> > >>>>> Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05 section 5 indicates the > >>>>> following. > >>>>> > >>>>> "In general, session-level values are the default for all > >>>>> media unless overridden by an equivalent media-level value." > >>>>> > >>>>> "The connection ("c=") and attribute ("a=") information > >>>>> in the session-level section applies to all the media of > >>>>> that session unless overridden by connection information > >>>>> or an attribute of the same name in the media description. > >>>>> For instance, in the example below, each media behaves > >>>>> as if it were given a "recvonly" attribute." > >>>>> > >>>>> If the attributes are related but with different names > >>>>> (such as "inactive" and "sendrecv"), does the attribute > >>>>> at the media-level have precedence over the value at the > >>>>> session-level? If so, I recommend that the draft be > >>>>> updated to clarify the topic. > >>>> > >>>> I believe so. at least that is my understanding from the > >>>> text. Does it really need clarification? Thoughts? > >>> > >>> I think that it should be clarified because it is unclear if "an > >>>attribute of the same name" indicates the typical situation or only > >>> situation concerning application of "unless overridden by an > >>>equivalent media-level value". For instance if I sent "a=inactive" > >>> at session-level and "a=sendrecv" at media-level, I'd be concerned > >>>that the receiver may interpret the SDP as being > >>> abnormal (such as including both values at media-level) instead of > >>>allowing "a=sendrecv" to override "a=inactive". > >>> > >>> In case it matters from an extendibility perspective, requiring the > >>>same name might make it easier to recognize the override. > >>> However since section 6 already introduces complications with > >>>defaulting to "sendrecv" if a new option is defined/used and > >>> unknown, allowing the override even when the names are not the same > >>>doesn't make things too much worse; it actually > >>> allows communication of a backup attribute (such as "a=inactive") if > >>>they don't understand the preferred new attribute (such > >>> as "a=foo"). > >>> > >>> "If none of the attributes "sendonly", "recvonly", "inactive", > >>> and "sendrecv" is present, "sendrecv" SHOULD be assumed as the > >>> default for sessions that are not of the conference type > >>> "broadcast" or "H332" (see below)." > >>> > >>> Thanks for the response, > >>> Brett > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> mmusic mailing list > >> mmusic@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >mmusic mailing list > >mmusic@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic > > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
- [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: session… Brett Tate
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Brett Tate
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Miguel A. Garcia
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Miguel A. Garcia
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Brett Tate
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Ali C. Begen (abegen)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-05: ses… Paul Kyzivat