Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components

Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Sat, 24 October 2015 23:22 UTC

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To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
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From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:22:02 -0400
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components
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On 10/24/15 12:05 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Note that on a separate thread we are concluding that if you do bundle you must to rtcp-mux.
>>
>> If we don't already have a problem with legacy ICE, I think it might also make sense to require that if you do ICE you must to rtcp-mux.
>
> I would not like to take that step yet. There ARE deployments that do ICE (or, at least ICE lite), but that do NOT do rtcp-mux.

Fine. Can you find another way out of this problem?

	Thanks,
	Paul

> Regards,
>
> Christer
>
>
> On 10/24/15 8:00 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
>> On 10/23/2015 09:00 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>>> On 10/23/15 2:25 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
>>>> The normal use case for ICE are large numbers of end points deployed
>>>> behind NAT sending media directly to each other.
>>>
>>> "Normal" changes over time. I think what you mean here is "current".
>>>
>>> As ICE becomes more mature and people understand it better, it will
>>> be used more broadly, for things that have legacy components.
>>>
>>> In any case, I think there will be much use of webrtc as one end of a
>>> session with the other end being a legacy sip device.
>>>
>>>> Deploying a lot of end
>>>> points without some sort of consent to send media mechanism creates
>>>> a perfect platform for denial of service attacks. ICE solves this
>>>> issue if legacy support is disabled. Furthermore, legacy end points
>>>> without SDP rtcp attribute support end up sending RTCP to completely wrong place.
>>>> Best solution for anything ICE enabled is to set c= line address to
>>>> IP4
>>>> 0.0.0.0 and provide real RTP and RTCP in ICE candidates. Legacy will
>>>> not work, but no traffic to unexpected destinations will be generated.
>>>
>>> Don't break interworking. Certainly this will require at least a
>>> signaling gateway. In general that will require a media gateway too.
>>> But anything that can be done to reduce the load on such a media
>>> gateway is good. It may need to do ICE. It may need to do the consent
>>> on behalf of the ultimate device.
>> If "legacy" = "does not support ICE": Not "may". "will".
>>
>> RTCWEB is designed to not start working unless ICE is present, and to
>> stop working if consent (which also requires ICE) isn't performed.
>>
>> If the problem is "interwork with WebRTC devices", there's a class of
>> legacy devices that is "someone else's problem".
>>
>>
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>
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