Re: [MMUSIC] WG adoption of other WebRTC data channel usage drafts?; Re: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt

Christian Groves <Christian.Groves@nteczone.com> Wed, 21 October 2015 16:13 UTC

Return-Path: <Christian.Groves@nteczone.com>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECC931B29DC for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L3UXgi7pU4xn for <mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from cserver5.myshophosting.com (cserver5.myshophosting.com [175.107.161.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 266191ACD7E for <mmusic@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [156.106.225.28] (port=54512) by cserver5.myshophosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from <Christian.Groves@nteczone.com>) id 1Zow18-000Mwd-Ny for mmusic@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Oct 2015 03:13:35 +1100
To: mmusic@ietf.org
References: <786615F3A85DF44AA2A76164A71FE1ACDF796695@FR711WXCHMBA01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <56202783.3010300@cisco.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B45C83@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <786615F3A85DF44AA2A76164A71FE1ACDF79D867@FR711WXCHMBA01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B45FDB@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <56213DD9.8080308@alum.mit.edu> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B37B46EA0@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5621596C.3070706@alum.mit.edu>
From: Christian Groves <Christian.Groves@nteczone.com>
Message-ID: <5627B9A9.6030802@nteczone.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:13:29 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <5621596C.3070706@alum.mit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cserver5.myshophosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - nteczone.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cserver5.myshophosting.com: authenticated_id: christian.groves@nteczone.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: cserver5.myshophosting.com: christian.groves@nteczone.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mmusic/5ML6OZcjYtzN5adgi-8aO4Bqukc>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] WG adoption of other WebRTC data channel usage drafts?; Re: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mmusic/>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 16:13:40 -0000

Also BFCP is an IETF protocol so it would make sense to do it here.

Regards, Christian

On 16/10/2015 10:09 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> On 10/16/15 3:10 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> I do agree that the data channel could be used for t.140, and I support
>> the work to be done.
>>
>> My point was the the work doesn't necessarily have to be done in IETF,
>> does it?
>
> I suppose not, if there is another place. But IIUC T.140 over RTP is 
> defined in the IETF, and the protocol work for WebRTC is done in the 
> ietf, so it seems logical to me that T.140 over data channel also be 
> done in ietf.
>
>> Or, is an RFC required for data channel usages?
>
> I don't know. Probably not.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Paul
>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Christer
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> From: Paul Kyzivat <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
>> Sent: ‎16/‎10/‎2015 21:11
>> To: mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] WG adoption of other WebRTC data channel usage
>> drafts?; Re: New Version Notification for
>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>
>> On 10/16/15 5:50 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>> Sorry - my mistake. But, my comment applies to BFCP too.
>>>
>>> I see no reason why IETF should work on a T.140 draft however - unless
>>> there are lots of people who want to do it (which I doubt).
>>
>> IIUC, WebRTC doesn't support T.140 (because it is not audio or video).
>> But it could support T.140 over data channel. So that is a motivation
>> for doing the work.
>>
>>          Thanks,
>>          Paul
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Christer
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>> From: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
>>> <mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>
>>> Sent: ‎16/‎10/‎2015 12:43
>>> To: Christer Holmberg <mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>; Flemming
>>> Andreasen <mailto:fandreas@cisco.com>; mmusic@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
>>> Subject: RE: [MMUSIC] WG adoption of other WebRTC data channel usage
>>> drafts?; Re: New Version Notification for
>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>>
>>>>  Now, in THIS specific case we are talking about MSRP, so maybe it
>>> makes sense to publish an RFC.
>>>
>>> This email thread is about T.140 and BFCP, not MSRP! The MSRP draft is
>>> already adopted by the WG.
>>>
>>> *From:*Christer Holmberg [mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com]
>>> *Sent:* Freitag, 16. Oktober 2015 09:26
>>> *To:* Flemming Andreasen; Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); mmusic@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* RE: [MMUSIC] WG adoption of other WebRTC data channel usage
>>> drafts?; Re: New Version Notification for
>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does a new data channel usage require an RFC???
>>>
>>> If someone wants to specify a data channel protocol X, they should be
>>> able to do so without having to gather interest in IETF.
>>>
>>> Now, in THIS specific case we are talking about MSRP, so maybe it makes
>>> sense to publish an RFC.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Christer
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *Flemming Andreasen <mailto:fandreas@cisco.com>
>>> *Sent: *‎16/‎10/‎2015 01:23
>>> *To: *Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
>>> <mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>; mmusic@ietf.org
>>> <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [MMUSIC] WG adoption of other WebRTC data channel usage
>>> drafts?; Re: New Version Notification for
>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>>
>>> Hi Albrecht
>>>
>>> In order for the WG to take on additional work and specific drafts, we
>>> generally require an expressed interest and support from the WG. We
>>> haven't seen a lot of that so far on these two drafts, so you may want
>>> to try and garner some additional interest and demonstrate that on the
>>> list and/or in the upcoming meeting (let us know if you would like
>>> agenda time to discuss these).
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> -- Flemming (as MMUSIC chair)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/6/15 3:47 AM, Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) wrote:
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>> like too remind that there are three first WebRTC data channel 
>>>> applications,
>>>> 1) MSRP based instant messaging,
>>>> 2) T.140 based text conversation and
>>>> 3) BFCP based floor control within a WebRTC conference service.
>>>>
>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel was/is the precedent for 
>>>> getting a common understanding about application protocol specific 
>>>> SDP usage (on top of the generic control of a DC).
>>>> The discussion and protocol design are fairly mature in the 
>>>> meanwhile, hence it is time to start the work on the two other 
>>>> applications.
>>>> We've prepared initial drafts, derived from the "MSRP draft", see:
>>>>
>>>> T.140 Text Conversation over Data Channels
>>>> draft-schwarz-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>>>
>>>> BFCP floor control signalling over Data Channels
>>>> draft-schwarz-mmusic-bfcp-usage-data-channel-01.txt
>>>>
>>>> We'd like to request MMUSIC for adoption of these drafts.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Albrecht
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Re: [MMUSIC] New Version Notification for 
>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>>>
>>>> Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler <Juergen.Stoetzer-Bradler@alcatel-lucent.com
>>> <mailto:Juergen.Stoetzer-Bradler@alcatel-lucent.com>> Wed, 09 September
>>> 2015 14:45 UTCShow header
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Version 02 of draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel addresses 
>>>> Christian's comments to version 01,
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmusic/current/msg14537.html,
>>>> except for the "setup" attribute related one.
>>>>
>>>> We'll come back regarding the SDP setup attribute, which can be 
>>>> part of an MSRP over data channel
>>>> related SDP media description as media level "a=setup" attribute 
>>>> and/or as MSRP sub-protocol specific
>>>> attribute "a=dcsa:x setup".
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Juergen
>>>>
>>>> On 09.09.2015 16:33,internet-drafts@ietf.org 
>>>> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>>>>> A new version of I-D, 
>>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt
>>>>> has been successfully submitted by Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler and 
>>>>> posted to the
>>>>> IETF repository.
>>>>>
>>>>> Name: draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel
>>>>> Revision:    02
>>>>> Title:               MSRP over Data Channels
>>>>> Document date:       2015-09-09
>>>>> Group:               mmusic
>>>>> Pages:               15
>>>>> URL:https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02.txt 
>>>>>
>>>>> Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel/ 
>>>>>
>>>>> Htmlized:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02 
>>>>>
>>>>> Diff:https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel-02 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>      This document specifies how the Message Session Relay 
>>>>> Protocol (MSRP)
>>>>>      can be instantiated as a data channel sub-protocol, using the 
>>>>> SDP
>>>>>      offer/answer exchange-based generic data channel negotiation
>>>>>      framework.  Two network configurations are documented: a 
>>>>> WebRTC end-
>>>>>      to-end configuration (connecting two MSRP over data channel
>>>>>      endpoints), and a gateway configuration (connecting an MSRP 
>>>>> over data
>>>>>      channel endpoint with an MSRP over TCP endpoint).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
>>>>> submission
>>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>>>>
>>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mmusic mailing list
>>>> mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mmusic mailing list
>>> mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mmusic mailing list
>>> mmusic@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mmusic mailing list
>> mmusic@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic
>
> _______________________________________________
> mmusic mailing list
> mmusic@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic