Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-32
Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> Tue, 12 March 2019 11:08 UTC
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From: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 11:08:39 +0000
Cc: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, mmusic@ietf.org
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To: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc4566bis-32
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> On 11 Mar 2019, at 23:22, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote: > > > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 11, 2019, at 5:26 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> wrote: >> >> On 3/11/19 1:43 PM, Colin Perkins wrote: >> >>>>> §5 has several changes to normative language. Most are okay, but I think the change from “all MUST appear in exactly the order given here” to “all must appear” weakens it too much, and I’d prefer that to remain a MUST. >>>> >>>> The reason for changing that is because the *normative* specification of the ordering is from the ABNF. The text here is explanatory and non-normative. (Note that a couple of paragraphs prior to this is a new statement emphasizing that the ABNF is normative.) >>> Sorry, but I think this change is problematic. The text needs to use normative language that is consistent with the ABNF. >> >> My thinking is that we don't like to have redundant normative specification, just in case they aren't consistent. The ABNF is normative. This section is of necessity an approximation. >> >> But I defer to Ben or whoever. > > I agree with both of you. :-) > > That is, we should avoid duplication normative requirements when possible, because it increases the chance of spec errors. But we should still try to make sure the sections agree. > >> >>>>> This is a normative requirement of RTP, however. If we want to avoid normative examples, which I’d agree makes sense, then this needs to be rewritten as just “An RTP-based system in recvonly mode SHOULD…”. >>>> >>>> That is the way it was. The change from "SHOULD" to "should" was to make it non-normative. >>>> >>>> Or were you requesting to remove “e.g."? >>> Remove the “e.g.”, yes, but also change “should” back to “SHOULD”. >> >> I thought the point was that the RTP specs are normative and this is only an example, and so shouldn't be normative. > > I do not have the text in front of me, but I agree that examples should not be stated normatively. This is documenting a perhaps unexpected interaction between SDP and RTP. That is, when set to recvonly in SDP, an RTP endpoint SHOULD send RTCP. I do think that it’s important that we spell this out clearly here, with normative language. -- Colin Perkins https://csperkins.org/
- [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-rfc45… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ali C. Begen
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Colin Perkins
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-mmusic-r… Ben Campbell