Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg
Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com> Thu, 11 February 2016 21:13 UTC
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To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, mmusic@ietf.org, "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com>, "bradler >> Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler" <Juergen.Stoetzer-Bradler@alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <BBE9739C2C302046BD34B42713A1E2A22E88D533@ESESSMB105.ericsson.se> <565C6CE3.3050007@alum.mit.edu> <565CDF90.7050107@nteczone.com> <565CEA14.2040607@alum.mit.edu> <565CEF7B.7010305@nteczone.com> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8BADE16A00@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <56682B96.9020008@alcatel-lucent.com> <56684C13.9030106@alum.mit.edu> <5668F9C1.4040606@nteczone.com> <566903E3.8020108@alum.mit.edu> <566A16D2.1070108@nteczone.com> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8BADE22AB4@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <566AEB05.3040501@alum.mit.edu> <56AACC37.8090900@cisco.com> <56AB8596.9090304@alum.mit.edu> <56B12F48.409@cisco.com> <56B25159.70002@alum.mit.edu> <56B28240.7080206@cisco.com> <56B2DA8D.2000909@alum.mit.edu> <56B41A47.10901@nteczone.com> <56B63EF8.8080100@alum.mit.edu> <56B8BDA4.7060305@cisco.com> <56B8CBB5.7070507@alum.mit.edu> <56BCF47E.2000603@cisco.com> <56BCF663.7020708@alum.mit.edu>
From: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
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Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 16:13:35 -0500
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Cc: draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg
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On 2/11/16 4:00 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: > On 2/11/16 3:52 PM, Flemming Andreasen wrote: >> >> >> On 2/8/16 12:09 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> On 2/8/16 11:09 AM, Flemming Andreasen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/6/16 1:44 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>>> On 2/4/16 10:43 PM, Christian Groves wrote: >>>>>> Isn't this the approach we're taking today? >>>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-sdpneg has general text and specific >>>>>> drafts are used to describe protocols that use the mechanism (i.e. >>>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel & >>>>>> draft-ietf-clue-datachannel). >>>>> >>>>> It remains to be seen if that will be enough. E.g., there currently >>>>> aren't any iana considerations in >>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel. >>>>> >>>>> Suppose I encounter some sdp that uses msrp over a data channel, but >>>>> that usage is unknown to me. How do I find the spec (the reference to >>>>> draft-ietf-mmusic-msrp-usage-data-channel) that defines that usage? >>>>> >>>>> I would like to think that the iana registries will allow me to trace >>>>> back to the relevant specs. >>>>> >>>> No disagreement on that part, however having taken another look at >>>> both >>>> sdpneg and the msrp-usage documents, I still don't agree with your >>>> original request for all (existing and new) attributes to specify how >>>> they may or may not be used with the dcsa attribute defined by sdpneg. >>>> >>>> As Christian noted, the sub-protocol specifics are defined in >>>> individual >>>> documents (like msrp-usage), which calls your the parameters that >>>> are at >>>> least needed to be supported for that usage. Taking MSRP as an >>>> example, >>>> why isn't that enough, and how do you see the resulting set of >>>> attributes that may or may not be used with MSRP differ between use >>>> in a >>>> data-channel (and hence encapsulated in dcsa) or as a regular media >>>> stream ? >>> >>> Based on this discussion, I conclude that it should be sufficient for >>> this draft to say that before an attribute can be used with dcsa, such >>> usage must be defined somewhere. This could be either: >>> - as part of the definition of the attribute, OR >>> - as part of the definition of the protocol referenced on the m-line. >>> >> We are getting closer, but it's still not obvious to me that you cannot >> use an attribute with dcsa if it has not been explicitly defined for the >> attribute in question. > > Can you give me an example? > How about preconditions ? -- Flemming > Thanks, > Paul > >> Clearly, there are attributes that wouldn't make >> sense over data channels, just like there are attributes that don't make >> sense over particular media descriptions. >> >> Again, I'd like to hear from more people on this, including the authors. >> >> Thanks >> >> -- Flemming >> >> >> >>> Thanks, >>> Paul >>> >>>> Also, it would be good to hear from more people on this, including the >>>> document authors. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -- Flemming >>>> >>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>>> Regards, Christian >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/02/2016 3:58 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>>>>> On 2/3/16 5:42 PM, Flemming Andreasen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not concerned about the IANA part. I agree that *if* we >>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>> expliclty specify attribute interactions for "dcsa", then it >>>>>>>> should be >>>>>>>> part of the IANA registry. What I am not agreeing with at this >>>>>>>> point is >>>>>>>> that there is indeed a need to explicitly speficy these >>>>>>>> interactions as >>>>>>>> opposed to relying on a more general algorithmic approach (plus >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> offerer being responsible for generating a valid offer if he >>>>>>>> wants to >>>>>>>> establish a data channel). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, an obvious one is that the protocol(s) the attribute >>>>>>> pertains to >>>>>>> need to be defined to work over data channels. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> mmusic mailing list >>>>>>> mmusic@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> mmusic mailing list >>>>>> mmusic@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mmusic mailing list >>>>> mmusic@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mmusic mailing list >>> mmusic@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >>> . >>> >> >> > > . >
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-channel-… Bo Burman
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Schwarz, Albrecht (Nokia - DE)
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Christian Groves
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Juergen Stoetzer-Bradler
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] WGLC for draft-ietf-mmusic-data-chan… Paul Kyzivat