Re: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?

Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Tue, 05 May 2020 16:21 UTC

Return-Path: <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB1C3A0964; Tue, 5 May 2020 09:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IYmHiULVrsvC; Tue, 5 May 2020 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr150040.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.15.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3C9F3A0945; Tue, 5 May 2020 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=kE8BrVorl64A++tq3Q6ByorVT1AX2BHeWq3V7ql63z2oXWy+lkaMTooN01kfo+2ELMbhHxQ7biqUZJAEBT+aF6sy8hAOWbIpcvY01iWJk17BLM0vfhGECwZoFfj8WKzRHSNC2RuVIKljZqcmLQy2BGHbouG7zrQUgGz5hnsTxcYUu5db/WZn6RiWKJQc7LQ7GPsPbuE/AHQ9FcCBfAImoLrwLamNpE+742qOV64WtTp6dAXLKnIRJRXIrthLcUmVTDUJrJTdSg9JXaE9MrdQdnTj9GJPmJ7uaOgv9US3sF4iaRk4G7LKdN2Jh3zXzHrHfbtaIlCn/U0yRA7iyKZX2w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xWMryIJHfpss4sYoT2H+ggLIp8/FZ4iR9k/Kbix7LGI=; b=aP2AmzecqyUoaKaJxYVS0EL6v4IFnDzVKzfQWLSyRTiyi+1EQcFC2Ge0EaUaSZBrTAjUiNjGa71N5lZlJrq4pN8sSr5lyqy2dMEL5bkvFSjW7VE8uTnvOqSL965+6KtdNZ+6JlExjTaPyfD6OQgnkWiyEMvKYJZ7y0yWB/ZYZDgl/llmK8X0XUwUhNvOTjboY8rQZGd9PG0t0MXoPgUP9ECsJc8Lf52PjRy2/VzS3AgAu0c7ldF0hAKVGm9Rz6W9dRCz9dCeCQosnz90IhoFOlUgNc6YuPR75JNm/Ua1TGOn86nCuv4QxJOB1LV5A1uMwXCDib6Atz60izF2x+c4mQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=xWMryIJHfpss4sYoT2H+ggLIp8/FZ4iR9k/Kbix7LGI=; b=PphEqwc99Ik+vjGuNv0FifgbpoEXe8VHwbPta04ROdUwkb5Rvku9ci8eBwandfjSLViFMUL6zaJy3NTToFyDm2h9VSiO9XMQo1s9MII9LMAm80txkT3LvhKaTqxFWq/mFYo7M3RLhvPnQpGFEqEN47u5FBBBayxTiIPK+7ACP48=
Received: from AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:1bc::19) by AM7PR07MB6612.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:1aa::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.21; Tue, 5 May 2020 16:21:39 +0000
Received: from AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4c:e502:13cf:87a8]) by AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4c:e502:13cf:87a8%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2979.025; Tue, 5 May 2020 16:21:39 +0000
From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>, Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>
CC: "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, bfcpbis <bfcpbis-bounces@ietf.org>, "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" <mmusic-chairs@ietf.org>, Suhas Nandakumar <snandaku@cisco.com>, "pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" <bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?
Thread-Index: AQHWIrgNtaRwl1O24EyhwPEAtJ9mf6iZekUAgAAqbACAADqqAA==
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 16:21:39 +0000
Message-ID: <0BAA16C9-B53A-4EBD-B133-ED111DBE92CA@ericsson.com>
References: <12B81692-4EA9-4AC2-8F46-DE3E1A39BE8C@ericsson.com> <f93ff4b8-3485-893c-e2ed-316babf8fe05@cisco.com> <CA+9kkMA_pVqaUk7XM80F+G-8MtGgj2Nh+pmFCb2GPJYLH6rXcQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+9kkMA_pVqaUk7XM80F+G-8MtGgj2Nh+pmFCb2GPJYLH6rXcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [213.216.230.200]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e0744561-d0bd-4b4d-9bb9-08d7f11063c9
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6612:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM7PR07MB6612B2793A45300166AB4CF793A70@AM7PR07MB6612.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-forefront-prvs: 0394259C80
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(366004)(396003)(33430700001)(4326008)(33656002)(8676002)(6506007)(71200400001)(6486002)(478600001)(53546011)(33440700001)(76116006)(186003)(110136005)(91956017)(26005)(66556008)(8936002)(66446008)(36756003)(64756008)(66476007)(66946007)(6512007)(966005)(2906002)(316002)(15650500001)(86362001)(2616005)(5660300002)(54906003)(44832011); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0BAA16C9B53A4EBDB133ED111DBE92CAericssoncom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e0744561-d0bd-4b4d-9bb9-08d7f11063c9
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2020 16:21:39.1554 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: keHbHcgIbLBYtIEjK9yjsla1yBW8oLHGJ+l46tQtwm+H3/q2Uq+Fst1t27lZA51gcZ+AXyFrhLc3U+6sUs1j7t/g+JOWIRpBsowLtS0+Wg4=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6612
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mmusic/HrcnigE9viRt5kj4Ic2T5zLK6w0>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mmusic/>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 16:21:45 -0000

Hi,

>At least for JSEP, this was considered by the authors and they declined to make the change:
>
>https://github.com/rtcweb-wg/jsep/issues/562
>
>I personally assume that we'd need to confirm for each one that references RFC 4566 that it was not a deliberate choice and that the internal
>detailed references do not need an update.

I claim that the reason we chose to not reference 4566bis was because of the assumption that the rest of the RTCWEB-related stuff was going to be published before 4566bis. I am happy to be proven wrong on that assumption, though :)

>That latter, I think, is why we should avoid it; it is not necessarily the case that the structure of bis will allow us to make one-for-one swaps.

I fully agree – it should not be a search/replace exercise.

In the case of the drafts below, the references were mostly in the syntax section, for definitions of “token” etc. And, those have not changed from 4566 to 4566bis.

Also, I am NOT suggesting that everyone has to do the reference update. As I said in my other reply, we already have a mix of 4566/4566bis references, and many specifications probably anyway reference both if we count explicit and implicit references.

Regards,

Christer



On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 6:21 AM Flemming Andreasen <fandreas=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> wrote:
Makes sense (as long as none of those references were explicitly to 4566 rather than 4566bis).

Cheers

-- Flemming (as individual)
On 5/5/20 4:34 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Hi,

Some of the drafts in Cluster 238 that reference RFC 4566, while other reference draft-4566bis-

Since draft-4566bis is also part of Cluster 238, and is in the RFC editor’s queue, should we update the references to draft-4566bis?

The change would be done *at least* to the following drafts (I will only check the ones I author/co-author):

MMUSIC WG:

draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp
draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-bundle-negotiation
draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp

BFCPbis:

draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis-27

One of the reason many drafts do not reference 4566bis is because the drafts were going to be finalized long before 4566bis. But, as that is now not the case….

draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-attributes references both 4566 (normative) and 4566bis (informative). In my opinion we could make 4566bis normative there, but I’d like to hear what Suhas thinks.

Regards,

Christer



_______________________________________________

mmusic mailing list

mmusic@ietf.org<mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic

_______________________________________________
mmusic mailing list
mmusic@ietf.org<mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic