Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel - language indication
Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Mon, 26 August 2019 09:28 UTC
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Gunnar Hellström <gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel - language indication
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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:28:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel - language indication
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Hi Gunnar, 12. At the end of 3.2, add the following about language negotiation ... >>> I don't think we need to say anything how to specify. draft-data-channel-sdpneg defines how to convey >>> SDP attributes in the dsca attribute, and 8873 defines the format of the hdland-send/recv attributes. >>> We could include an example instead. >> Yes. > > Proposal: > > Change 3.3. header from Example to Examples > > Add at the end of 3.3 the following: > > > Another example is an offer for a T.140 data channel from an > organisation offering real-time text conversation in Spanish and > Esperanto, and an answer accepting Esperanto. > > Offer: > > m=application 911 UDP/DTLS/SCTP webrtc-datachannel > c=IN IP6 2001:db8::3 > a=max-message-size:1000 > a=sctp-port 5000 > a=dcmap:1 label="ACME customer service";subprotocol="t140" > a=dcsa:1 fmtp:- > a=dsca:1 hlang-send:es eo > a=dsca:1 hlang-recv:es eo > > Answer: > > m=application 911 UDP/DTLS/SCTP webrtc-datachannel > c=IN IP6 2001:db8::3 > a=max-message-size:1000 > a=sctp-port 5000 > a=dcmap:1 label="ACME customer service";subprotocol="t140" > a=dcsa:1 fmtp:- > a=dsca:1 hlang-send:eo > a=dsca:1 hlang-recv:eo > > (Christer, can you please insert the variations needed in the answer to > make it a realistic example of offer - answer.) If we want to keep it realistic, should we really use Esperanto? :) One of my teachers in high school was a big fan of Esperanto, and claimed that it will take over English as the number one world language. But, that was only 30 years ago, so I guess there is still time :) --- 12a: Allow use of hlang- attributes together with m=application media declarations ... >>>> The problem is that we are not defining usage of the lang attributes, and modality, for the 'application/webrtc-datachannel' media type: >>>> we are defining modality and usage of the attributes for a specific data channel. >>>> >>>> So, maybe something like: >>>> >>>> "This document updates RFC 8373, by defining how the SDP hlang-send and hlang-recv attributes are used for >>>> the "application/webrtc-datachannel" media type. >>>> >>>> SDP endpoints MUST NOT include the attributes directly in the m= section associated with the >>>> 'application/webrtc-datachannel' media type. Instead, the attributes MUST be associated with >>>> individual data channels, using the SDP dcsa attribute. A specification that defines a subprotocol >>>> that uses the attributes MUST specify the modality for that subprotocol. >>>> >>>> For T.140 data channels the modality is 'written'." >>> >>> This works for the T140 data channel, but another subprotocol may be >>> able to carry more than one media type and therefore have some other >>> indication of what media type is used. An example is the msrp data >>> channel that can carry messages with different modalities. >> >> Sure, and the text says that each subprotocol specification need to define what the modality is. >> >> (Of course, it would have been great if 8373 would have defined a way to explicitly indicate the modality, instead of implicitly retrieve it from the media type.) > > Agreed. It was discussed but not included in the final result. I think anything "implicit" should be forbidden in IETF standards - it always creates problems sooner or later.... >>> So, yes, it is tempting to say that we extend RFC 8373 in general, but >>> we can do in in a fully specified way only for the T140 data channel. >>> >>> How would you express that? >> Using the suggested text above :) >> >> - It updates 8373 by allowing usage of the lang attributes for application/webrtc-datachannel media types. >> - It updates draft-data-channel-sdpneg, by indicating that the modality must be defined for each data channel that >> uses the lang attributes. In draft-t140-data-channel we then define the modality for T.140 data channels. > > Yes, I agree, it can be read your way. > > But I read "A specification that defines a subprotocol that uses the > attributes MUST specify the modality for that subprotocol." as if only > one modality was tied to a specific subprotocol identity. > > Can we change the sentence to "A specification that defines a > subprotocol that uses the attributes MUST specify how the modality is > deducted for languages used with that subprotocol." Will fix. Regards, Christer Regards Gunnar > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > _______________________________________________ > mmusic mailing list > mmusic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic -- ----------------------------------------- Gunnar Hellström Omnitor gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se +46 708 204 288
- [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-us… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Belling, Thomas (Nokia - DE/Munich)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… R.Jesske
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Draft new: draft-holmberg-mmusic-t14… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-data-ch… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Gunnar Hellström
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Roni Even (A)
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] draft-holmberg-mmusic-t140-usage-dat… Paul Kyzivat