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Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components

Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Sun, 25 October 2015 06:17 UTC

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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components
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Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2015 06:17:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components
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Hi Paul,

I did notice your conversation after I had posted my reply. I will post any further comments there.

Sorry for the mess.

Regards,

Christer

Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Paul Kyzivat<mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Sent: ‎24/‎10/‎2015 17:33
To: mmusic@ietf.org<mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components

Note that on a separate thread we are concluding that if you do bundle
you must to rtcp-mux.

If we don't already have a problem with legacy ICE, I think it might
also make sense to require that if you do ICE you must to rtcp-mux.

For compatibility with non-ICE, it would be ok to offer ICE and and
rtp-mux, or ICE and a=rtcp, as fallbacks for answers that refuse ICE.

I think that would provide as much legacy compatibility as is feasible.

        Thanks,
        Paul

On 10/24/15 8:00 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> On 10/23/2015 09:00 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> On 10/23/15 2:25 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
>>> The normal use case for ICE are large numbers of end points deployed
>>> behind NAT sending media directly to each other.
>>
>> "Normal" changes over time. I think what you mean here is "current".
>>
>> As ICE becomes more mature and people understand it better, it will be
>> used more broadly, for things that have legacy components.
>>
>> In any case, I think there will be much use of webrtc as one end of a
>> session with the other end being a legacy sip device.
>>
>>> Deploying a lot of end
>>> points without some sort of consent to send media mechanism creates a
>>> perfect platform for denial of service attacks. ICE solves this issue if
>>> legacy support is disabled. Furthermore, legacy end points without SDP
>>> rtcp attribute support end up sending RTCP to completely wrong place.
>>> Best solution for anything ICE enabled is to set c= line address to IP4
>>> 0.0.0.0 and provide real RTP and RTCP in ICE candidates. Legacy will not
>>> work, but no traffic to unexpected destinations will be generated.
>>
>> Don't break interworking. Certainly this will require at least a
>> signaling gateway. In general that will require a media gateway too.
>> But anything that can be done to reduce the load on such a media
>> gateway is good. It may need to do ICE. It may need to do the consent
>> on behalf of the ultimate device.
> If "legacy" = "does not support ICE": Not "may". "will".
>
> RTCWEB is designed to not start working unless ICE is present, and to
> stop working if consent (which also requires ICE) isn't performed.
>
> If the problem is "interwork with WebRTC devices", there's a class of
> legacy devices that is "someone else's problem".
>
>
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