Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Text proposal - Second try
Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Mon, 15 June 2015 14:55 UTC
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From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: "Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)" <albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>, "GUBALLA, JENS (JENS)" <jens.guballa@alcatel-lucent.com>, mmusic <mmusic@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Text proposal - Second try
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Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2015 14:55:21 +0000
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Cc: "pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Text proposal - Second try
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Hi Albrecht, Whatever the reason, the fact is that DTLS - for whatever reason - chose to use "association" instead of "connection" :) Regards, Christer -----Original Message----- From: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) [mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: 15 June 2015 17:20 To: Christer Holmberg; GUBALLA, JENS (JENS); mmusic Cc: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Subject: RE: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Text proposal - Second try Hello Christer, wrt > While I do realize that "connection" is not suitable for > connectionless protocols, in my opinion it was a mistake to use > "association", because it has caused lots of confusion. I often get > questions on what the difference between a DTLS association and DTLS > connection is :) 1st) There is not any contradiction between "connection" and "connectionless" (according to the basic reference model for communicaions (X.200)). Id est, a (N)-connection is either operated in communication mode (§ 5.3.3/X.200) "connection oriented" (= "connection mode" § 5.3.3.2/X.200) or "connectionless" (§ 5.3.3.3/X.200). => no contradiction ("there are connectionless (N)-connections ...") 2nd) DTLS as protocol belongs to category connection-oriented, not connectionless. The (DTLS)-connection is of type connection-oriented. Furthermore: that's the reason why there are also "UDP connections" despite their connectionless nature. Regards, Albrecht -----Original Message----- From: mmusic [mailto:mmusic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg Sent: Montag, 15. Juni 2015 15:07 To: GUBALLA, JENS (JENS); mmusic Cc: pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Text proposal - Second try Hi Jens, Thanks for your feeback! See inline. >> ------------- >> >> 12. DTLS Considerations >> >> One or more media streams within a BUNDLE group might use the >> Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol [RFC6347] in order >> to encrypt the data, or to negotiate encryption keys if another >> encryption mechanism is used to encrypt media. >> >> When DTLS is used within a BUNDLE group, the following rules apply: >> >> o There can only be one DTLS association [RFC6347] associated with >> the BUNDLE group; > > [JG] I prefer the term "DTLS connection" over "DTLS association" > because I am not aware that the latter term is defined anywhere in the > scope of (D)TLS. > RFC6347 is using the terms "connection" and "association" > interchangeably without any definition. On the other hand the term > "connection" is at least present in the glossary section of RFC5246. RFC 5763 and RFC 5764, both related to DTLS-SRTP, use "association": "We use the term "association" to refer to a particular DTLS cipher suite and keying material set that is associated with a single host/ port quartet. The same DTLS/TLS session can be used to establish the keying material for multiple associations." (RFC 5763) "Each DTLS-SRTP session contains a single DTLS association (called a "connection" in TLS jargon),..." (RFC 5764) While I do realize that "connection" is not suitable for connectionless protocols, in my opinion it was a mistake to use "association", because it has caused lots of confusion. I often get questions on what the difference between a DTLS association and DTLS connection is :) >> o Each usage of the DTLS association within the BUNDLE group MUST >> use the same mechanism for determining which endpoints (the >> offerer or answerer) becomes DTLS client and DTLS server; and >> >> o If the DTLS client supports DTLS-SRTP [RFC5764] it MUST include >> the 'use_srtp' extension [RFC5764] in the DTLS ClientHello message >> [RFC5764], The client MUST include the extension even if the usage >> of DTLS-SRTP is not negotiated as part of the session. > > [JG] I believe here "session" is referring to "SIP session", not to > "DTLS session", right? Should be explicitly stated in any case. See below. >> NOTE: The inclusion of the 'use_srtp' extension during the initial >> DTLS handshake ensures that a DTLS renegotiation will not be required >> in order to include the extension, in case DTLS-SRTP encrypted media >> is added to the BUNDLE group later during the session. > > [JG] "Session": Same comment as above. It's not DTLS, but it can of course be something else than SIP. I guess we could say something like "multimedia session", "SDP session", or something... Regards, Christer
- Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Tex… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Tex… GUBALLA, JENS (JENS)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Tex… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Tex… Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
- Re: [MMUSIC] Bundling data channel and RTP? - Tex… Christer Holmberg