Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components

Christer Holmberg <> Sat, 24 October 2015 16:05 UTC

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From: Christer Holmberg <>
To: Paul Kyzivat <>, "" <>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 16:05:28 +0000
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] ICE and RTCP host components
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>Note that on a separate thread we are concluding that if you do bundle you must to rtcp-mux.
>If we don't already have a problem with legacy ICE, I think it might also make sense to require that if you do ICE you must to rtcp-mux.

I would not like to take that step yet. There ARE deployments that do ICE (or, at least ICE lite), but that do NOT do rtcp-mux.



On 10/24/15 8:00 AM, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> On 10/23/2015 09:00 PM, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
>> On 10/23/15 2:25 PM, Roman Shpount wrote:
>>> The normal use case for ICE are large numbers of end points deployed 
>>> behind NAT sending media directly to each other.
>> "Normal" changes over time. I think what you mean here is "current".
>> As ICE becomes more mature and people understand it better, it will 
>> be used more broadly, for things that have legacy components.
>> In any case, I think there will be much use of webrtc as one end of a 
>> session with the other end being a legacy sip device.
>>> Deploying a lot of end
>>> points without some sort of consent to send media mechanism creates 
>>> a perfect platform for denial of service attacks. ICE solves this 
>>> issue if legacy support is disabled. Furthermore, legacy end points 
>>> without SDP rtcp attribute support end up sending RTCP to completely wrong place.
>>> Best solution for anything ICE enabled is to set c= line address to 
>>> IP4
>>> and provide real RTP and RTCP in ICE candidates. Legacy will 
>>> not work, but no traffic to unexpected destinations will be generated.
>> Don't break interworking. Certainly this will require at least a 
>> signaling gateway. In general that will require a media gateway too.
>> But anything that can be done to reduce the load on such a media 
>> gateway is good. It may need to do ICE. It may need to do the consent 
>> on behalf of the ultimate device.
> If "legacy" = "does not support ICE": Not "may". "will".
> RTCWEB is designed to not start working unless ICE is present, and to 
> stop working if consent (which also requires ICE) isn't performed.
> If the problem is "interwork with WebRTC devices", there's a class of 
> legacy devices that is "someone else's problem".
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