Re: [MMUSIC] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-12: (with DISCUSS)

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Thu, 09 April 2020 11:51 UTC

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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel@ietf.org>, "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" <mmusic-chairs@ietf.org>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, "fandreas@cisco.com" <fandreas@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-12: (with DISCUSS)
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Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 11:51:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-mmusic-t140-usage-data-channel-12: (with DISCUSS)
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Hi Christer.

I think the below proposal improves the scope description so it would be good to
include. 

Thanks

Magnus

On Thu, 2020-04-09 at 11:08 +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> Hi Magnus,
>     
> >    I will clear my discuss as I think I strayed beyond the discuss criteria
> > due
> >    missing the sentence in the prior sub-section. 
> >    
> >    I think the text would clearer if one took slightly more consideration
> > for under
> >    what conditions in offers or answers the normative language will apply.
> > For
> >    exmaple. When an a=dcmap:3 with a subprotocol="t140" attribute is
> > included ...
> >    
> >    This is of course statement dependent and I will not spend my time on
> > suggesting
> >    rewording of all of these. 
> 
>   
> What about the following change:
> 
> OLD:
> 
> 	"This section defines the SDP considerations that are specific to a
> T.140 data channel."
> 
> NEW:
> 
> 	"This section, and its subsections, define the SDP considerations that
> are specific to a T.140 data channel,
> 	  identified by an SDP 'dcmap' attribute [I-D.ietf-mmusic-data-channel-
> sdpneg]  with a "t140" 
>                 attribute parameter value."
> 	
> Regards,
> 
> Christer
> 
>     
>     
>     On Tue, 2020-04-07 at 15:05 +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>     > Hi,
>     > 
>     >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >  DISCUSS:
>     >  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >         
>     >     >>>    Section 4.1:
>     >     >>>    
>     >     >>>       The offerer and answerer MUST NOT include the max-retr or
> the
>     > max-
>     >     >>>       time attribute parameters in the 'dcmap' attribute.
>     >     >>>    
>     >     >>>    This is just an example of a issue that is exists in
> basically all
>     > of the
>     >     >>>    RFC 2119 terminolgy using sentences in this section. The
>     > formulation is that
>     >     >>>    the offerer or answerer must do something with attributes or
>     > parameters of
>     >     >>>    the dcmap attribute. However, it is not stated to be specific
> to
>     > the dcmap
>     >     >>>    attribute that specifically specify something for a T.140
> SCTP
>     > stream. I
>     >     >>>    think that scope restriction needs to be made more explicit
> for
>     > these RFC 2119
>     >     >>>    statements. Else they would have applicability as soon as one
>     > support
>     >     >>>    this specification.
>     >     >>   
>     >     >> The last sentence of Section 4 says:
>     >     >> 
>     >     >> "This section defines the SDP considerations that are specific to
> a
>     > T.140 data
>     >     >> channel."
>     >     >
>     >     > So why is that last and not first? 
>     > 
>     >     It is the last sentence of the parent section (4), and covers the
>     > procedures in the section, including the subsections (4.x). This wording
> has
>     > been used multiple times before.
>     > 
>     >     But, if you think it is more clear, I could say "The following sub
>     > sections define the SDP considerations....".
>     > 
>     >     > So isn't this all scoped based on that there is an dcsmap line
> with a
>     > subprotocol line stating t140 either included in an
>     >     > offer that one is generating or responding to as an answerer? 
>     > 
>     >     Correct, and Section 4.1 describes the SDP details on how to
> indicate a
>     > T.140 data channel, using the dcmap attribute.
>     >     
>     >     > As you see I am undertain if the sentence is sufficient to scope
> this
>     > correctly.
>     >     > Are there statement that are relevant outside of the scope of
> actually
>     > offering
>     >     > or answering a T140 offer? I think part of the uncertainty is if
> there
>     > are
>     >     > aspect that my be wrongly interpreted if one support T140 but it
> is not
>     > actively
>     >     > included? 
>     > 
>     >     The procedures in section 4 (including the sub sections) only apply
> to
>     > T140.
>     > 
>     >    Regards,
>     > 
>     >    Christer
>     > 
>     > 
>     > 
>     > 
>     >     Cheers
>     >     
>     >     Magnus Westerlund 
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>     >     Networks, Ericsson Research
>     >     ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>     >     Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>     >     Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>     >     SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
>     >     ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>     >     
>     >     
>     >     
>     -- 
>     Cheers
>     
>     Magnus Westerlund 
>     
>     
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Networks, Ericsson Research
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>     Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>     SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     
>     
>     
-- 
Cheers

Magnus Westerlund 


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Networks, Ericsson Research
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
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