Re: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?

Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> Tue, 05 May 2020 16:07 UTC

Return-Path: <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: mmusic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26B83A0044; Tue, 5 May 2020 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0D4QgmdhSJQx; Tue, 5 May 2020 09:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am6eur05on2070.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.22.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ACA03A08E2; Tue, 5 May 2020 09:07:10 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=JVSWVkvFsLo4HxeJ+L9I25hyC5oDuk0TvrB23UhMY1Lnp2mytNbBwm/UkLTFf12mZRY0OFO0diryrr2OYKq/yuMmKQH7aQBg+Pr4tKx2LcbItYX5G0AymJNonlE6+7orNjEsoUCxoI5dakp8yKt+YjA+9vXf6+YH1PEBJDJPe2iF/fBld2xa7T7LY7ZgNnIstronWaLR3We0M6bgwVbjXyS6AsVC9O+kBRuy3zW8vCQ9do8OCzaz4fuH+qtbA8Xy5rux+Ptprdx7cQLNGgQe1LL0r0Lc9u7bwPv9JNnK91zENE/WuVqYyYsUimtQE9pjYPnyIg1hLjveXlsoo769Ew==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=r9FXUF1NbP6pReItLwGN4WMX+QY9PFoy5bGv/3FPwU8=; b=PttJBli6BAVBLHHbWX8HtkShoOjtbRsSYUcnTxhgQODi4UG+KapAvY3ltPISXcEFmVChGC8K/sg3s1NIU/qeNQTPbdtwppECjHTg5od9gzD+ZKUzmHc7EtIeTe2YB5Rg1SiBaR9j0OcTwtVd/mKxEyNDwICqEtZksUUcJ8PZSQARFDdUw0aO6m3Q3vLA5WptqogPa+/t5fmhaiOO8JhiC1f/l4ZCQi6yP9rnvZmxLdcA+NfFK5mGN73/D3ItEKOzt5VfcOIIKyq9xlhK9gF2En9scxOWzjTphZABhhTXDol8GmMiT9i9Vm1ohmzQfRksUrHQ35jVHyd3BcxLqfIhZA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=r9FXUF1NbP6pReItLwGN4WMX+QY9PFoy5bGv/3FPwU8=; b=FkxB9gI/BeLyiTB+iX9qtJLicfjXVymYhxcL3ltXNTX0FHN6Q7fT1VUI3nVI7QOPcxI9eb+2AggcrFFocsXjguabbZM66K+JJTYvxmubHi7bKJHOD10aDFHEHJwb1yJJbRjE2D6ub50VO7awxgdrU+5OmVxgtb07DE/B5L3soSw=
Received: from AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:1bc::19) by AM7PR07MB6280.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:142::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.18; Tue, 5 May 2020 16:07:08 +0000
Received: from AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4c:e502:13cf:87a8]) by AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4c:e502:13cf:87a8%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2979.025; Tue, 5 May 2020 16:07:08 +0000
From: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>, bfcpbis <bfcpbis-bounces@ietf.org>, "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" <mmusic-chairs@ietf.org>, Suhas Nandakumar <snandaku@cisco.com>, "pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" <bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?
Thread-Index: AQHWIrgNtaRwl1O24EyhwPEAtJ9mf6iZekUAgABcp4D//87GgIAANZuA
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 16:07:08 +0000
Message-ID: <08ED61DB-6161-459B-BC43-BB18846F6944@ericsson.com>
References: <12B81692-4EA9-4AC2-8F46-DE3E1A39BE8C@ericsson.com> <f93ff4b8-3485-893c-e2ed-316babf8fe05@cisco.com> <0F8EC912-54F2-4D39-805B-3E48D79B1C78@ericsson.com> <CA+9kkMAnZCgvoThyGZKe-i0f5teCKTHw2ANhcxguNS3AnEftAA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+9kkMAnZCgvoThyGZKe-i0f5teCKTHw2ANhcxguNS3AnEftAA@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1e.0.191013
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [213.216.230.200]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 26ceac16-3e2f-4318-4ffb-08d7f10e5cb8
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7PR07MB6280:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM7PR07MB628040197CE71473C9A0BDCD93A70@AM7PR07MB6280.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-forefront-prvs: 0394259C80
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM7PR07MB7012.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(39860400002)(346002)(136003)(376002)(396003)(33430700001)(6512007)(186003)(26005)(2616005)(2906002)(4326008)(86362001)(44832011)(966005)(15650500001)(5660300002)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(478600001)(64756008)(76116006)(91956017)(66446008)(71200400001)(6916009)(8676002)(8936002)(36756003)(33656002)(316002)(6506007)(6486002)(53546011)(33440700001)(54906003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_08ED61DB6161459BBC43BB18846F6944ericssoncom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 26ceac16-3e2f-4318-4ffb-08d7f10e5cb8
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2020 16:07:08.2279 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: unuY68e5gSzheWdRM+E61oyqmxOxWk47m6BLSN5HcWmdHTHozmMgJOZumLXs3WmKhIVak3wsFUof5qvFCJPvPpDFhygxY8C+ZXCKj73IP8E=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR07MB6280
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/mmusic/ak5k6iL6R7wT64bB_NAzXLdbd5o>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?
X-BeenThere: mmusic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Multiparty Multimedia Session Control Working Group <mmusic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mmusic/>
List-Post: <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic>, <mailto:mmusic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 16:07:15 -0000

Hi Ted,

All the drafts I listed are in cluster 238, so it is going to take some time before they got published.

And, we will anyway have a mix of references in cluster 238, because some of the drafts that were recently finalized do reference 4566bis.

Having said that, I will ask the RFC editor to revert the change before people have a chance to give an opinion.

Regards,

Christer

From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 5 May 2020 at 18.55
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>
Cc: Flemming Andreasen <fandreas@cisco.com>om>, "mmusic@ietf.org" <mmusic@ietf.org>rg>, bfcpbis <bfcpbis-bounces@ietf.org>rg>, "mmusic-chairs@ietf.org" <mmusic-chairs@ietf.org>rg>, Suhas Nandakumar <snandaku@cisco.com>om>, "pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu" <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>du>, "bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org" <bfcpbis-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Reference update from 4566 to 4566bis?

This appears to have crossed my message in the air.  I respectfully request that you revert this request to the RFC editors, on the basis I gave in my mail.  If you don't do that, I'm afraid I will, and we will have a mess.

Please also recall that time zones are a thing, and that some of the people you wanted to review this just started their day a small amount of time ago; generally speaking, less than a day's review for a suggested change to this cluster is not reasonable.

regards,

Ted

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 8:51 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf..org>> wrote:
Hi,

>Makes sense (as long as none of those references were explicitly to 4566 rather than 4566bis).
Sure.
But, at least in the drafts listed below, I did not find anything that would have been 4566-specific, so I have asked the RFC editor to update the references.
I don’t think we should publish RFCs with references to specifications that are obsoleted from day one…
Regards,
Christer


-- Flemming (as individual)
On 5/5/20 4:34 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
Hi,

Some of the drafts in Cluster 238 that reference RFC 4566, while other reference draft-4566bis-

Since draft-4566bis is also part of Cluster 238, and is in the RFC editor’s queue, should we update the references to draft-4566bis?

The change would be done *at least* to the following drafts (I will only check the ones I author/co-author):

MMUSIC WG:

draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp
draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-bundle-negotiation
draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp

BFCPbis:

draft-ietf-bfcpbis-rfc4583bis-27

One of the reason many drafts do not reference 4566bis is because the drafts were going to be finalized long before 4566bis. But, as that is now not the case….

draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-attributes references both 4566 (normative) and 4566bis (informative). In my opinion we could make 4566bis normative there, but I’d like to hear what Suhas thinks.

Regards,

Christer


_______________________________________________

mmusic mailing list

mmusic@ietf.org<mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic

_______________________________________________
mmusic mailing list
mmusic@ietf.org<mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic