Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp-10 semantics
Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Sun, 06 March 2016 22:45 UTC
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To: Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com>
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From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2016 17:45:46 -0500
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp-10 semantics
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On 3/3/16 7:35 PM, Justin Uberti wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu > <mailto:pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>> wrote: > > On 3/3/16 6:23 PM, Roman Shpount wrote: > > Assuming you are comfortable with the above, I think the > indicator > we want is some sort of “connection-id” parameter, either as a > standalone value or as a value which is unique in > association with > the fingerprint. This seems cleaner than having a “new” versus > “reuse” token. The semantics would be that if you see a new > identifier that means you need to form a new association > but that > multiple replays of the same identifier mean that you reuse > the same > association (i.e., do not DTLS reconnect). > > > This resolves the idempotency concern that present with the > existing > proposal, and also makes backwards compatibility simpler; a > change > in either a=fingerprint or a=dtls-connection-id will > trigger a new > DTLS connection. > > > I have actually proposed this very thing (dtls-association-id > instead of > dtls-connection), but people on the list found this to be too > complex. > This has an additional benefit of handling some of the 3pcc use > cases > when in response to empty INVITE it is unknown if generated > offer will > be used in the same session or in the new one. dtls-association-id > resolves this nicely, but we settled for a simpler requirement > to always > respond with a=dtls-connection=new in response to empty INVITE. > > The question is does group feels strongly about changes to > (dtls-association-id from dtls-connection at this late stage, > since this > will require a major rewrite. > > > I had discomfort with connection=new/existing back when it first > came up with TCP, exactly because it isn't idempotent. I don't > recall why I lost that battle. > > But now that is water over the dam. So I think it takes a stronger > argument for why to adopt a different pattern now for something so > similar. If the SDP implementation already has to deal with this for > a=connection, then why is it a problem to also do so for > dtls-connection? > > > I don't agree that the ship has sailed on this. I agree. (Their is a lot of *water* over the dam, but the ship hasn't gone over the dam yet.:-) I just said the bar was higher than normal. > If we unearth a > compelling reason (idempotency), we shouldn't be bound by decisions to a > different attribute made 10+ years ago. > > Besides idempotency, the connection/instance id approach has the > additional benefit of simpler logic for old remote endpoints - if either > the fingerprint or id changes, make a new DTLS connection. The tradeoff is that it becomes a *new* mechanism. More opportunities for people to misunderstand and get it wrong. More opportunities for us to write the description unclearly to help with that. Thanks, Paul
- [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-sdp-1… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Ted Hardie
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Ted Hardie
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Justin Uberti
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Justin Uberti
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Justin Uberti
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Justin Uberti
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] Thoughts on draft-ietf-mmusic-dtls-s… Roman Shpount