Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim Meeting, June 17, 2013
Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu> Wed, 05 June 2013 16:41 UTC
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From: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>
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Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim Meeting, June 17, 2013
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On 6/5/13 6:37 AM, Emil Ivov wrote: > Hey Flemming, > > You are right, there are no specific SDP updates that "No Plan" is > asking from mmusic. > > That said however, the same is pretty much true about Plan A and Plan B. > They both discuss ways of using SDP and the extensions that might be > implied to these ways are considered mostly collateral: ??? AFAIK plans A and B both assume BUNDLE, and use it, and by implication impose restrictions on its use. Similarly I think No Plan has the same characteristics. I guess No Plan and Plan B *could* be used without BUNDLE. Is that your point? At least I don't see that as the expectation for typical use. In any case I think these discussions are important context for the BUNDLE discussions. Thanks, Paul > Plan A: > > This document describes a *modest* > set of extensions to SDP which allow it to cleanly handle arbitrary > numbers of flows while still retaining a large degree of backward > compatibility with *existing* and non-RTCWEB endpoints. > > Plan B: > > Plan B mostly uses *existing* IETF standards, introducing a single new > draft [I-D.lennox-mmusic-sdp-source-selection] to specify how > individual media sources can be accepted/rejected at the SSRC level > via SDP. > > I might be off, but it was my understanding that the interim meeting was > not going to be about these specific extensions (which could possibly be > specified regardless of which Plan we go for) but mostly about the best > ways to use SDP with multiple sources. The choices we make could have an > impact on multiple working groups, which, I assumed, was the main reason > for having the discussion mmmusic. > > In that sense I see "No Plan" as quite related to this discussion. > > Am I right in assuming this and if so does the above answer your question? > > Emil > > On 05.06.13, 06:44, Flemming Andreasen wrote: >> >> On 6/4/13 10:41 PM, Bernard Aboba wrote: >>> Yes, you are missing something. No plan analyzes issues with both >>> Plan A and Plan B and describes how to fix them. As they stand, both >>> Plan A nor Plan B result in O/A exchanges that aren't needed and will >>> break congestion control. Also, neither satisfies the requirements of >>> the RTP usage doc or is compatible with a number of legacy >>> implementations. No plan offers a solution to these and other issues. >> I understand that "no plan" sees issues with Plan A and Plan B as >> currently defined. What I don't understand is what extensions or updates >> to SDP signaling mechanism are being proposed here and hence which part >> of this discussion belongs in MMUSIC as opposed to RTCWeb simply >> specifying how it wants to use a set of current/developing mechanisms >> (or rely on app specific mechanisms, etc.) ? In other words, what does >> "no plan" seek from MMUSIC ? >> >> Thanks >> >> -- Flemming >> >>> On Jun 4, 2013, at 7:29 PM, "Flemming Andreasen" <fandreas@cisco.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 5/31/13 6:46 AM, Emil Ivov wrote: >>>>> Dear chairs, >>>>> >>>>> Could you please also consider the following draft for the interim >>>>> meeting agenda: >>>>> >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-rtcweb-noplan >>>> Sure, however I could use some clarification here. On one hand, the >>>> draft falls squarely in the middle of the overall "Plan" discussion >>>> we have and hence is highly relevant, but at the same time, if I >>>> understand correctly, the draft is not asking MMUSIC to do anything >>>> in terms of protocol development. Rather, if this approach is >>>> adopted, it would be more of an RTCWeb usage document specifying how >>>> one could use several different mechanisms (and possibly WebRTC >>>> APIs) to implement signaling. There doesn't seem to be a "mandatory >>>> to implement" mechanism for guaranteeing interoperability (in >>>> contrast to Plan A/B), but rather there are references to "app >>>> specific signalling" mechanisms, etc. Am I missing something here ? >>>> >>>> >>>>> I apologise if not stating this earlier has introduced any confusion. >>>> No worries. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -- Flemming >>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Emil >>>>> >>>>> On 30.05.13, 21:56, IESG Secretary wrote: >>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is to announce a(nother) virtual interim meeting for the MMUSIC >>>>>> Working Group to take place on Monday, June 17, from 7:00 am - >>>>>> 10:00 am >>>>>> Pacific Time. The goal of this meeting is to come to a resolution >>>>>> on the >>>>>> so-called "Plan A" or "Plan B" approach related to SDP signaling >>>>>> needed >>>>>> by RTCWeb, CLUE, etc. (i.e. do we have potentially lots of "m=" >>>>>> lines or >>>>>> very few "m=" lines and to what extent is there sub-negotation and >>>>>> signaling at the SSRC level). >>>>>> >>>>>> A more detailed agenda and logistics will be sent out separately >>>>>> on the >>>>>> MMUSIC mailing list. For now, people should take a close look at the >>>>>> following two drafts: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roach-rtcweb-plan-a-00.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-uberti-rtcweb-plan-00.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> You may also want to look at >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-roach-rtcweb-glareless-add-00.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Ari & Flemming (MMUSIC co-chairs) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: Per our previous interim meeting announcement, we tried to >>>>>> schedule >>>>>> a longer and in-person physical interim meeting, however it has >>>>>> proven >>>>>> impossible to find a set of dates where we could get critical mass >>>>>> for >>>>>> such a meeting. Scheduling even a virtual interim before the >>>>>> Berlin IETF >>>>>> has been surprisingly difficult with the above date being the only >>>>>> viable option at this point. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> mmusic mailing list >>>>>> mmusic@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mmusic mailing list >>>> mmusic@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mmusic >>> . >>> >> >> >
- [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim Mee… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Martin Thomson
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Mary Barnes
- [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim Mee… IESG Secretary
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Martin Thomson
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Mary Barnes
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Paul Kyzivat
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Flemming Andreasen
- [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Cullen Jennings
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Kevin Dempsey
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Cullen Jennings
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Martin Thomson
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Martin Thomson
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Emil Ivov
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion control Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion controll Martin Thomson
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion control Martin Thomson
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion control Cullen Jennings
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion control Cullen Jennings
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion control Bernard Aboba
- Re: [MMUSIC] Congestion control Martin Thomson
- [MMUSIC] WebEx info for MMUSIC Working Group Virt… Flemming Andreasen
- Re: [MMUSIC] MMUSIC Working Group Virtual Interim… Flemming Andreasen